D-MAN Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Here's one of the Hartsfield 1957 patent drawings. It is NOT related IME to the Klipschorn (patented in 1945) except that: 1) it's a folded horn 2) it goes in a corner 3) it's certainly more complicated to make dm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 ---------------- On 5/4/2005 4:25:14 PM Edgewound wrote: Your contradictions and baseless comments make you sound like some pompous wine or food critic. If I understand what you are saying, you can criticize people who like the Hartsfield sound, while in the same breath, you admit you've never heard Hartsfields in a "known environment"? You also seem to pass judgement based on conversations you had with people who where there, to bolster your own limited perspective. What a worthless post. ---------------- LOL! IN THE HOPE OF HELPING YOU UNDERSTAND, I WILL SPEAK A LITTLE LOUDER. I AM CRITICAL OF ANYONE WHO LIKED THE SOUND THAT I HEARD AT THE SHOWS THAT EMANATED FROM THE HARTSFIELDS, BECAUSE IT WAS FACTUALLY BAD SOUND. I AM NOT CRITICAL OF ANYONE WHO LIKED THE SOUND IF THEY HEARD IT SOMEWHERE ELSE AND IT WAS MUCH BETTER. THIS IS JUST TO COVER THE POSSIBILITY THAT THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN SHOWN AT THEIR BEST. NOTE: THE OWNER DID NOT MAKE ANY STATEMENT TO THE EFFECT THAT THE ROOM WAS DETRACTING FROM ANYTHING. HE SEEMED VERY HAPPY. I'VE HEARD MUSIC MY ENTIRE LIFE. I MENTIONED OTHER PEOPLE WHO ALSO THOUGHT THE HARTSFIELDS WERE LOUSY SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS A FACT. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT, MAKE OF IT WHAT YOU WILL. IT APPEARS YOU HAVE AN EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT TO THE HARTSFIELD AND I AM SORRY TO HAVE TO INFORM YOU THAT NOT EVERYONE IN THE WORLD FEELS THE SAME WAY YOU DO. SUCH IS LIFE. REMEMBER IN YOUR AUDIO JOURNEYS, BOSE IS THE NUMBER ONE SPEAKER COMPANY IN THE WORLD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmikid Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 ---------------- On 5/4/2005 2:08:12 PM fini wrote: Yeah, they probably weren't the real McCoy... ---------------- The Highwaymen? It wasn't Waylon & Willie,was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnBob Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I heard a mahogany pair many years ago. My impression was "stupendous, rather than realistic." The bass was pretty solid, but things got more and more ragged the higher you went. Not quite classic "West Coast Screech-Boom" but heading in that direction. As for the early ones, there's a reason why JBL added the 075s. It reminded me of what Rudy Bozak said about the Klipschorn - "A remarkable achievement, but I wouldn't want one in my living room." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 "Hartsfields can be compared to "blue chip" investments. I can understand the reluctance of an owner to give demos to every curious window shopper, they're very rare." I didn't exactly fit into the "every curious window shopper" category since I did purchase a vintage integrated tube amp from the guy. BTW, the Hartsfields were not for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 ---------------- On 5/4/2005 5:32:04 PM CaptnBob wrote: I heard a mahogany pair many years ago. My impression was "stupendous, rather than realistic." The bass was pretty solid, but things got more and more ragged the higher you went. Not quite classic "West Coast Screech-Boom" but heading in that direction. As for the early ones, there's a reason why JBL added the 075s. It reminded me of what Rudy Bozak said about the Klipschorn - "A remarkable achievement, but I wouldn't want one in my living room." ---------------- As I got near the end of this I was preparing to give my appraisal, since there seemed to be few that have heard original Hartsfields. The Cptn has it close to my memory of the listen. A very enjoyable experience - I have always been less of a fan of the sound from the vintage JBL lens than others and that is probably my issue with the HF. The bass is definitly a bit more 'beamed' (my own interpretation) than the KHorn (I also think the Xover was higher and contributed to this as well). This does make the room a much more interesting consideration if you want to get the full flavor of the sound. All in all - up there with the KHorn in some respects (they were darn pretty pieces) but not really close to stealing my ear.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 ---------------- On 5/4/2005 2:08:12 PM fini wrote: Yeah, they probably weren't the real McCoy... ---------------- Making me laugh out loud again Fini--- Thank goodness you have that avatar with you at the piano to sober me up..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgewound Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 On 5/4/2005 4:45:49 PM Parrot wrote: LOL! IN THE HOPE OF HELPING YOU UNDERSTAND, I WILL SPEAK A LITTLE LOUDER. I AM CRITICAL OF ANYONE WHO LIKED THE SOUND THAT I HEARD AT THE SHOWS THAT EMANATED FROM THE HARTSFIELDS, BECAUSE IT WAS FACTUALLY BAD SOUND. I AM NOT CRITICAL OF ANYONE WHO LIKED THE SOUND IF THEY HEARD IT SOMEWHERE ELSE AND IT WAS MUCH BETTER. THIS IS JUST TO COVER THE POSSIBILITY THAT THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN SHOWN AT THEIR BEST. NOTE: THE OWNER DID NOT MAKE ANY STATEMENT TO THE EFFECT THAT THE ROOM WAS DETRACTING FROM ANYTHING. HE SEEMED VERY HAPPY. I'VE HEARD MUSIC MY ENTIRE LIFE. I MENTIONED OTHER PEOPLE WHO ALSO THOUGHT THE HARTSFIELDS WERE LOUSY SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS A FACT. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT, MAKE OF IT WHAT YOU WILL. IT APPEARS YOU HAVE AN EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT TO THE HARTSFIELD AND I AM SORRY TO HAVE TO INFORM YOU THAT NOT EVERYONE IN THE WORLD FEELS THE SAME WAY YOU DO. SUCH IS LIFE. REMEMBER IN YOUR AUDIO JOURNEYS, BOSE IS THE NUMBER ONE SPEAKER COMPANY IN THE WORLD. You also said, and I quote: "I've never heard originals" "Since some people like them, I can either figure they've heard them in better rooms or else they have atrocious taste" "I thought they were out of their ever-loving minds and had no business being at an audio show with that lousy of judgment, but that's the way it is sometimes" "FACTUALLY BAD SOUND" What does "factually bad sound" mean, at this level? Does it remind you of the PA system at a Little League game, or the likes? I don't know if I would be quoting the impressions of AK members, the majority of them seem to think '70s era Japanese receivers to be the last word in sonic fidelity. Note: I said the majority, NOT ALL OF THEM. Mr. Parrot, have you ever stopped to consider, maybe it's YOUR hearing and taste that are defective? You said you've been listening to music "all my life". Is that a not so subtle insinuation that you possess the mythical "Golden Ears". Leave Bose out of it, to mention or compare any Bose product with the likes of the D30085 is sheer folly. They are two entirely different products with two entirely different goals in mind with their design. It's without a doubt "apples and oranges". You are attempting to lead your reader to make some connection between the tastes of Bose fans and Hartsfield fans, with the ever popular, idiotic, mob mentality, and waste of time, known as Bose bashing. Forget who is the #1 speaker maker in the world, Klipsch is #1 in the U.S.A. While you're passing out not so subtle slights on others, and their tastes, remember this my friend, YOUR ears only work for one brain, YOURS, maybe it's time you recalibrate YOUR mind set. To each, his own, just don't try to infer or imply, that if someone's tastes or choices run contrary to your own, then they must somehow be defective or flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgewound Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 ---------------- On 5/4/2005 5:38:16 PM Seadog wrote: "Hartsfields can be compared to "blue chip" investments. I can understand the reluctance of an owner to give demos to every curious window shopper, they're very rare." I didn't exactly fit into the "every curious window shopper" category since I did purchase a vintage integrated tube amp from the guy. BTW, the Hartsfields were not for sale. ---------------- My comment was NOT directed at you, personally, it was just an observation. My apologies if you took it the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgewound Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 ---------------- On 5/4/2005 4:45:49 PM Parrot wrote: LOL! IN THE HOPE OF HELPING YOU UNDERSTAND, I WILL SPEAK A LITTLE LOUDER. The all caps is a very mature touch. Did not you mean to say "I WILL SQUAWK A LITTLE LOUDER"? I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyholiday Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 edgewound, your a real ballon-knot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in ABQ Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Johny, If you ment "balloon-knot"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyholiday Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 in the technical analysis, of balloon knots as a whole, i droped one letter, in the merging of two words,to stay in the singular, thank you for pointing out my mistake, perhaps i will use ball@n in the future ,in the world of ,acending, tranverse, an decending, ball@n knots, the motility of the "o" 's in balloon become blurred ,an feel like a lower left quadrant cramp, but in the fullness of time this too will be resolved, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 "in the technical analysis, of balloon knots as a whole, i droped one letter, in the merging of two words,to stay in the singular, thank you for pointing out my mistake, perhaps i will use ball@n in the future ,in the world of ,acending, tranverse, an decending, ball@n knots, the motility of the "o" 's in balloon become blurred ,an feel like a lower left quadrant cramp, but in the fullness of time this too will be resolved," ok...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 ---------------- On 5/4/2005 4:42:38 PM D-MAN wrote: Here's one of the Hartsfield 1957 patent drawings. It is NOT related IME to the Klipschorn (patented in 1945) except that: 1) it's a folded horn 2) it goes in a corner 3) it's certainly more complicated to make ---------------- I agree... esp #3 without a doubt. I'm also posting a later sound-path image which gives a good idea of how the Hartsfield was folded. Even though it physically resembles the Jubilee externally, here we see it bares very little resemblance internally. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Well I have neither heard them nor heard of them - but they look COOL AS HELL to me.... I wonder if any ever made it out of the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 The 'top loader' was only made for a couple of years, at best. The 'coffin back' is the one that the Jubilee is built like. http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/plans/hartsfield/page2a.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I guess Im the only one to have heard 4 versions of the Hartsfield. (due to my decrepid age) The top loader with 15" woofer. The top loader with a adapter using a 8" JBL full range speaker. The coffen back with 15" woofer. All with or without 075 tweeter. The midrange was with 375 & lenz. The Michigan clone used JBL components when they could be found. Later JBL pro drivers were used. The TAD drivers now used sound the best. 1601a woofers, 4001 mids & lenz, 703 tweeters. Another company Sun Engineering made Hartsfield clones. Two types one using a 15" woofer the other using a 18" woofer. I never heard those. But I understand HAL COX was selling those. HAL was a good friend of James B Lansing. Lansing hired Hartsfield to design that horn to compete against Klipsch. Lansing used the best components he could make for that horn. Klipsch used the best cheapest components he could find for his horn. Guess who has had his horn still in production the longest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Here's the way I see it. JBL/Altec used incredibly well built components of the highest quality/price. Klipsch used/uses middle of the road quality/price. As many JBL/Altec fanatics as there are, there are quite a few Klipsch fanatics as we know. Both camps think their products sound superior. My guess is that the Khorn design is where the genius lies and swapping in some JBL components, some altec 511 horns, etc. would (and has by many here) improve the Khorn. No doubt PWK's design was brilliant and for the price, maybe the best available. You don't need 400 pound drivers to get great sound from a khorn. Never heard the Hartsfield but I assume it would probably sound much better in the right room with the right sources. I understand what Paul was trying to say but he certainly struck a nerve with a Hartsfield fan. I'm guessing any speaker of that size would have sounded bad in that environment. Is this is a passionate hobby or what? Some of the battles here are just plain silly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I remember a St Louis JBL dealer ( Hi Fi Showroom ) The owner, Told me about JBL Having a few Hartsfield cabinets made in Mexico. They tested them & they sounded awful. Come to find out they were missing a fold or two. The mexico cabinet maker tried to pull a fast one to save a few bucks. Would you buy a car today Made south of the border? Incidently...That patent drawing shown by D MAN is the one with the 8" speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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