Yes, But Could They Afford K-Horns?

[dodger]

Reading Financial sections of various newspapers the past three days have given me these treasures:

For the Year 2004

Xerox President's Compensation including a rough 1.8 million dollar salary, Stock, Stock options, bonuses totaled over 8.3 million dollars. Not including extra perks.

Laid off about 2,000 workers

Eastman Kodak President's compensation including over 1.5 million dollars stock, stock options, not including other perks totaled over 6 million dollars.

Moved film processing to China

laid off about 1800 workers

GM states that in the cost of each vehicle made is $1525.00 in health benefits paid to workers. A quote notes that the Japenese have an un fair advantage because the Government provides Health Care. He loved to work on cars but never thought he would be a Health Benefit Administrator.

Lastly, Dodgers Catcher Jason Phillips doesn't know how he would make it if he were suspended for steroid use. "It's different with the guys that have been in the big leagues a lot of years and making millions, saying the suspension would be too harsh." He and his family live paycheck to paycheck. He worries about having to go to work for Burger King, ask he asked the interviewer what they would do.

He made a commentbout eating 5 poppy seed rolls.

For clarification Phillips is earning $339,000 not including his $80.00 per day food per diem.

Living paycheck to paycheck means he has to make do on two paychecks per month of $14,125.00 each $28,250 per month.

Shall we take up a collection? or send directions to food pantries where he can get food free?

[Parrot]

This is very considerate of you, Win. I am in to donate $20.

[dodger]

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On 5/8/2005 10:45:28 AM Parrot wrote:

This is very considerate of you, Win. I am in to donate $20.

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Thank You Paul.

I just can't imagine what it's like to live on only $28,250.00 per month and then get only $80.00 per diem when on the road.

I've seen how hard it is on The Food Network for only $40..00 per day. It has to be twice as bad. :

[ZAKO]

Life is a crap-shoot then you die.

[fastlane]

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On 5/8/2005 10:26:15 AM dodger wrote:

For clarification Phillips is earning $339,000 not including his $80.00 per day food per diem.

Living paycheck to paycheck means he has to make do on two paychecks per month of $14,125.00 each $28,250 per month.

Shall we take up a collection? or send directions to food pantries where he can get food free?

----------------

This poor guy may only be paid during the season which is about 7 months long. Which means his $48,429 monthly checks just don't go as far as we might think. Maybe he has a winter job to make ends meet.

[greg928gts]

I'm more inclined to think that every one of these guys you mentioned have worked hard and earned their way to where they are. Good for them.

I find it amusing that it's the unions in this country that are responsible for most of the so-called job losses to overseas workers. If they hadn't systematically turned large U.S. companies into large welfare states and a productive work force into submissive sleep, with workers not able to pick up a broom because it's not in their job description, I think things would be a lot different than they are today. I know a guy who works at Bath Iron Works as a painter. His responsibility each day is to paint 6' of pipe. Doesn't matter what diameter the pipe is, he's supposed to paint 6 lineal feet of it. Then he can sleep the rest of the day. If he sees another worker nearby struggling to lift something, he's not allowed to help. This is what unions have done to our country. He still has a job, and it pays really well. Why? Because it's Federal tax dollars. Bath Iron Works is the second largest employer in Maine, supported by the government and our tax dollars. The first largest employer in Maine is the government.

It all comes in cycles, and in time our work force will be forced to awaken and become productive again. Meanwhile, our nation flocks to Wal-Mart for everything we need to live, cheap, made overseas. I'm in for the cycle, I shop at Wal-Mart.

Greg

[Parrot]

Amen on the union nonsense.

[dodger]

Hi Greg:

Good points i have only one to note differentl - Eastman Kodak. Non-Union.

I posted those as they received a disparity in compensation compared to the line worker. Much compensation was received for sending jobs overseas.

You see what a number do not. I don't put all of the blame on unions, I do put some on those who hire. I always wore a suit and tie to an interview, even the Civil Service Test.

Now I've seen applicants that don't even have their shirts tucked into the holed jeans they're wearing.

For other profit, one of my blood pressure meds would cost $249.00 for a three month supply if you have no insurance, a sixty dollar co-pay and insurance pays $150.. rounded. The cost to the Pharmacy is under $12.00. Then maybe 8 minutes to fill the prescription.

We should all make so much profit.

[timbley]

I listened to a radio program where they interviewed people at different income levels. They started at about $150,000/year and ended up at $1,000,000/year. Not one of them felt they were really that well off. They all knew somebody who made more doing something they felt was similar or easier.

The million a year person was asked what would constitute being well off. To her, it'd be having 30x10^6 dollars free and clear in the bank. Then she could have a life.

[Tom Adams]

Actually, the productivity index in the good 'ol US of A is up quite a bit. In fact IIRC, it's at record levels. That's the good news.

The bad news is these numbers are a result of companies using fewer workers. IOW, the downsizing that ocurred after the sugar high stock market of the prior administration corrected itself, has not been re-filled. Not sure about your work situation, but there's literally no one to do my job if I'm out sick or on vacation. Take over a week off? Are you crazy?? One week is bad enough.

I don't necessarily blame the Unions. They're probably a contributor, but the biggest driver IMHO is the tremendous pressure CEO's, CFO's, COO's and the like have on them to produce big returns on investments (including their own). Investors grew accustomed to the unreal 20 and 30 percent returns of the unrealisticly valued stock market of the prior administration. The market value now is at a realistic level for solid and sustained growth, yet investors want more. The result is short term thinking or instant gratification, if you will. And what better way to bolster your stock than to do more with less or move the labor portion offshore?

I don't begrudge these guys for making the money they do. I just have an issue with the manner in which they make decisions and how they justify it. I think it hurts everyone in the long run and our nation as a whole.

As for "the wealthy"....class warefare is so very popular. Yep, way too easy to speak about the "evil rich". It would be interesting to see the criticizers' attitude if they woke up one morning worth $2mil. Yep - those "filthy rich" people. Don't know about you, but I don't know too many people that WOULD NOT want to be filthy rich. But I know a whole bunch of folks that DO NOT want to filthy poor!

Personally, I'm happay as a pig in sh*t. I've got a great wife, a solid marriage, a step daughter that thinks I can fix anything, my health is good, a good job, a nice house, and most importantly....KLIPSCH SPEAKERS!! YEAH BABY!!!!!!!!!

Tom

[smuttynose]

Jeez, it's a game, isn't it? baseball is still considered a game? too bad ordinary people that barely make enough to get by still pay obscene amounts of money to go watch this game, that and the product sponsors, and the game is a multi-billion dollar business. even Wrigley Field put in lights so they could compete. i think that the sweetest thing is these fat cats have far more problems than the poor slobs who support them by watching sports. if they had khorns they wouldn't have the sense to spend time enjoying them.

[st. patrick]

I gotta agree with Tom, life with family is good, a bit of health, not missing any meals, got 2 sets of Cw's, fortes i got to pick up, heresys and kg4's for my kids . . . . everything else is gravy.

[damonrpayne]

CEOs are horribly over-compensated in this country. Forget for a moment the ones who send jobs overseas: what about the ones who reap obscene compensation in years where their company's revenue nosedives 40%? This happened at Home Depot a couple years ago, and Money magazine runs a regular special on stuff like this.

I don't begrudge someone who makes a fortune, but the problem is executive compensation is a form of price-fixing right now. The people who have input into what a CXO should make are:

-Other CEOs

-Executive recruiters (who are paid a % of salary to find a person)

-Board Members

-Compensation analysts

In other words, its a great big you scratch my back, I'll inflate your paycheck scenario. If I was a major stockholder in a company, I wouldn't stand for this any longer. Luckily, big mutual fund managers (often the single largest stockholders in a company is a mutual fund) are starting to put pressure on this type of behavior: "Knock it off, or we're dumping your stock"

[dodger]

Yes baseball is just a game.

Football is just a game and for Monday nights it will be a memory.

ESPN paid one Billion to get it.

I remember the good old days before cable. All home channels were free, sporting events were televised. Now we pay for cable or sattelite plus pay per view.

Lovely world.

[Blackmesa]

"I've got my family to feed."

-Latrell Sprewell

complain about signing a new contract for less than 14 million a year which is what he was getting for years previous.

Im sorry sprewell, but I did not know your family was China.

[Audible Nectar]

"As for "the wealthy"....class warefare is so very popular. Yep, way too easy to speak about the "evil rich". It would be interesting to see the criticizers' attitude if they woke up one morning worth $2mil."

2 Mil is not sufficient to be called "the rich".

"The Rich" is the upper one half of one percent of US income earners. Sorry folks, 1M annual salary isn't quite good enough to make it "in"......1M puts you in the "upper middle" class, at least for purposes of "class warfare" discussion.

These are the people who OWN the machinery that makes our economy go. I would venture a guess that they would spend no time here....they have lobbyists to buy and laws to rewrite.

Unions were created in response to the early 1900's era of "The Robber Barons". Gigantic companies that the Government could not control ran amok - who sought to write the laws for themselves. The US wrotelabor, antitrust and antimonopoly legislation in order to keep these megacorps from running the show themselves.......and attempting to ensure that no one else gets a piece of the action.

People blame GM on the unions. I say that's bunk: Blame the leadership.

The union workers didn't make the decision for GM to have FIVE (Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac) versions of EVERY car they build. How inefficient! In contrast, Toyota builds two versions of every make in most cases (Lexus versions are the other). GM redesigns engines periodically - Toyota essentially keeps them the same, with only minor improvements (Toyota small trucks used the 22R and RE engines for 30 years)....because they work. Toyota has the foresight to build fuel efficient hybrid electric vehicles.....10 total models planned for release within the next two years.....GM has NONE.

People pay 3000-7000 more for Toyotas of comparable size and power vs. GM. They aren't doing it because they are cheaper (like Chinese imports) - they buy them because they are BETTER.

And this is the fault of the unions. Yeah, right. This is a LEADERSHIP issue. When a football team has a losing record year after year, you fire thier coach, for openers. What has GM done besides blame the workers?

And in case you didn't read the paper this week, GM's outstanding bonds have been labeled as "junk status".

The country's massive debts and marriage to the MegaCorps is a microcosm and repeat of 100 years ago. There's a HUGE money/power grab currently occurring, because the air is about to be let out of the balloon. Get now while the gettin' is good, because it won't be so good in coming years. Debt, peak oil, lack of self sufficiency (inability to produce your own crucial goods) and a weakening of labor will serve to put a serious hurt to a now global economy.

And the leaders want to blame YOU, just like GM wants to blame the unions. If GM blaming the unions ISN'T class warfare, I don't know what is. Pot, meet kettle.

The leadership wants us to fight amongst ourselves when the crap hits the fan. Lib vs. Con, Red vs. Blue, rich vs. poor. All in an attempt to distract our attention from where the REAL blame lies.....THE LEADERSHIP (Government AND corporate). Because EVERYONE on this forum stands to lose.

When the US's largest employer 30 years ago was GM, and now it is Wal Mart, what does that say about our economy?

I see Dodger's cynicism is only exceeded by mine.....and I assume it is only because he sees what I see. The evidence points no where else, and in my book, can draw no other conclusion.

I'm glad I don't have children.

[dodger]

I can remember when GM was proudly saying the Prizm (correct me if I'm wrong) was their leading seller.

It was made by Toyota - a slightly different looking Corolla. Price was higher.

My feelings are not that all rich are evil. They run from disgust to dismay about the baseball player living paycheck to paycheck.

With Kodak and Xerox, it's a pride issue. The same as what would cause Gannett to be sick if he saw our daily paper. We used to have two, A morning and an evening. The evening was eliminated and the daily morning that's left is so thin you can easily miss a section.

With Kodak there was pride in supporting home town business and your neighbors who worked at the Company. I used to take a lot of pictures. Sunsets, full moon over water, mood scenes. I don't think I've even bought a roll of film since the move of developing.

Somehow we've gone from a point where the President of a number of Companies whose salary and benefits were 82 times that of the average worker in 1982 to just over 300 times and jobs are sent away.

Maybe China is a huge market, but when the leaders have knocked the U.S. as they have, I just wait for a Government tariff to be put on products. Or a restriction or Governmental take over of plants.

We hear about job growth. In the Service Industry. If we keep losing jobs at the rate we have been, who will be able to afford the services?

All of the layoofs have hurt the City's tax base. We not only have 911 we have 311. House broken into and the crook is gone, call 311 and report it all over the phone. Fender bender with no injuries, not much damage, 311.

On a house valued at 50,000, I pay close to $2,000.00 per year in taxes.

It amazes me that 330,000 plus is in the starting salary range of a sport, we pay a lot for tickets, parking is 3 or 4 times the norm, food and beverages - you can go out for a steak dinner. Then the athletes playing the sport that they love, or the actors, musicians get annoyed when asked for their autograph. "We have no privacy." Pick another profession.

Even radio has become cheap. When they used to run a contest, if you were the right number caller, you won. Now your name is entered for a drawing.

I agree with Audible and I'm also glad that I don't have children.

As optimistic as I would love to be I see reality.

For the whole, I'm fine now, but the medical bills and prescription costs I've had to pay. I could have K-Horns in every room, including the throne.

[Cal Blacksmith]

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On 5/9/2005 7:22:46 AM Audible Nectar wrote:

..............

People pay 3000-7000 more for Toyotas of comparable size and power vs. GM. They aren't doing it because they are cheaper (like Chinese imports) - they buy them because they are BETTER.

................

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Actually, the Jap cars are only PERCEIVED as being better. Not that long ago, GM offered the Nova at a good deal less than the Toyota Corolla was selling for. Both cars were made on THE SAME ASSEMBLY LINE IN THE U.S.! There was a 6-month supply of Novas sitting idle while the Corollas were out of stock! They re-badged the Novas to Corollas and sold them out at a good pace!

The only car I ever bought new was a Nissan and it was a lemon from day 1! I have had Dodge/Plymouths before and since and they have been GREAT cars!

It is true that in the 70s American cars were not up to the quality of the Jap cars but that is no longer true, nor has it been for many years but old impressions are hard to get over.

[Tom Adams]

Audible said: "People blame GM on the unions. I say that's bunk: Blame the leadership."

Back in the late 60's my Dad worked for General Electric and he told me something that has stuck with me to this very day. He said that at one time GE had a sign in their corporate offices that read: Unions are a result of poor (bad?) management. I interpret that in today's language as "Leadership".

So yeah Audible....I completely agree with you and your points. Unions and obscene compensation and squeezing more out of employees and whatever else are merely the symptoms - not the root cause.

Tom

[kenratboy]

A top CEO/exec has worked very hard to get where they are.

They work very hard at their job.

If they do not work miracles, they will probably get fired and then convince the next board that they will be able to do better at their company.

Demanding job demands a fat paycheck. If you look at people like the Nissan head (French guy), he took a devistated company and turned it around - making them HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS - does he not deserve a large reward for that? I certainly think so!

Oh, as for Kodak, blame digital