Unhappy with RF-7's

[jpm]

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On 7/14/2005 11:49:03 AM Frzninvt wrote:

I was going to say that Dean, but I didn't want to burst JPM's bubble. I was going to say that 10% of that put into a network upgrade would have yielded similar or better results. ----------------

Poppycock

[Deang]

If we assume the move you made wasn't so much an upgrade in equipment as it was a lateral you made in an attempt to "tame" your top -- then I say "poppycock" to you, and that you spent a heck of a lot of money that you didn't need to spend. If the money you spent was part of a real equipment upgrade, then sure, you'll get great benefits from that all the way around. You may just have worded it poorly, but the impression was that you spent $3000+ to "tame" your top, something I could have done for a 10th of the amount. I suspect regardless of what you are using, that horn is going to dominate. You can deny it if you want, but I don't think anyone knows that speaker's character with various gear better than me and maybe a few others. At any rate, one should work the speaker end first, and then work the gear. It's like taking your favorite drink from a clean glass and a dirty straw, and b!tching that it tastes funny. Going through all the glasses in the cabinet isn't the answer.

Here you go Charles:

[Deang]

I have no idea how the guy managed to keep them so nice for so long.

[jpm]

Dean-

Good points! Here's the scoop... I had a Denon integrated amp and an old Denon cdp player when I purchased the 7's. Everything WAS bright. I was ready and more than willing to re-do my system anyway, and had settled in on British SS gear. The REGA stuff was the most logical and financially feasible choice for me. I contemplated getting a sub to handle the lack of bass at low volumes, but the BBE handled that problem perfectly. My 7's sound wonderful now and I couldn't be happier.

I'm sure your upgrades are the bomb, and we all appreciate guys like you that can make our listening hours more pleasurable. Kudos to you, my friend!

So, long story short, for me, the route I traveled made the most sense.

[Frzninvt]

Those are nice Dean, they are newer a/d/s probably from the past 10 years or so. I am sure they will have that smooth, warm and crisp a/d/s sound though. I am using an a/d/s component set as the front sound stage in my car and man it is awesome! Strangely enough a/d/s always supplied a primo crossover network in their speakers with quality parts and it showed.

[D-MAN]

I've always like ADS's. I had the tiny little metal ones back in my '73 Datsun 240Z (man, that was a long time ago).

Kept them when I sold the car. My younger brother then "borrowed" the pair and proceeded to blow them up with Pink Floyd's "The Wall".

He never replaced them. He still totally sucks, now that I think about it!

DM

[Deang]

rotflol -- aren't memories great?

[Parrot]

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On 7/14/2005 1:15:24 PM DeanG wrote:

I have no idea how the guy managed to keep them so nice for so long.

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I suspect he never listened to them.

[KlipsDude]

jpm, sounds like a nice setup you have there. Wish I could have a listen to it and see what it's like. Dang, that's a good price for 12 gauge wire. I was in HomeDepot a few weeks back and I missed that, they were outs of the speaker spool wire on that rack rolls, I'm gonna have to go back and look for that one and see if they gots more in. Think I'll give thats a try and see if I hear a difference.

Okay, making sure I understand what you are saying, I get all four wire cables to bi-wire, all 12 gauge? And are you saying you replaced the Klipsch speaker connectors to the Radio Shack speaker connectors?? My friend has some big fat wire cables on his RF-7's but they were $325.00 for the pair for 10ft. He said he noticed it kind of sound smoother by changing the sound wider than more forward and narrow. Him and I are running all different equip. so I don't know if I'm hearin smoother or not, maybes I should ask to borrow them. I won't pay that much for cables.

Oh yea, in the do it yourself forums, I read some guys are making their own cables with solid core copper wire that they link threaded wire with and swear it's as good as $3,000.00 cables for whole lots cheaper. Has me curios about those to. I guess folks are making their own speakers and cables now. I think I will try the .20¢ a foot first.

[KlipsDude]

Dean, I been reading people talking about your crossover for the RF-7. I noticed you went to the Klipsch Pilgrimage, I was just curios of how Klipsch feels about your crossover change? Do they like it? Do they think it's improvement to the sound? Just asking, hope you don't mind me asking it, just curious after reading what people say about them.

Nice ADS speakers, they do look brand new! Someone must haves not let anyone touch them!

Anyways, it sound like you are puttin a interesting system together.

[KlipsDude]

I know, if he was like my Mom, she never let any one set foot in the front room, that's why all her furniture in there still looks brand new after 25+ years old. My Dad's speakers are in that front room to, thats why they look brand new still. He needs new speakers but I know he wont do it, but his speakers dont have no HF like Klipsch do.

[Speedball]

Hey Klips,

I've had my "networks" (crossovers) by Dean for about a week or so now and the difference is HUGE. It seems to calm the tweeter down, bring out the midrange and tighten up the bass if that makes any sense to you.

.....and I've only owned the RF7's for about 2 months and I could still tell a big difference.

[KlipsDude]

Geez, now you really haves me curious if its that huge a difference.

Wish I could hear the difference yours sound like than mine.

[KlipsDude]

Dean, how much do those ADS speaker weigh each, how tall? I tried to read up on them from Google but cants find any thing on them, curious cause I never heard of those. I must be spelling it wrong for it to come up on google.

[jpm]

klipsdude, I used some nice gold plated banana plugs (Rat Shack brand, not Monster). They came 4 to a pack at about $9 per pack. They're good for up to 10 gauge wire, so at the amp when I needed to double up the wire, they worked fine. I pulled my receipt from Home Depot and it seems I paid more like .35 cents a foot for the wire. I'm not a believer at all in expensive speaker wire, however 12 gauge makes sense to me. I did spring for nicer interconnects on the amps, dvd and cdp, but even then I probably didn't spend more that $250 total. The biggest improvement in sound I made was the $160 BBE. Google it and you can see why it's cool. Warranties mean a lot to me, so I tend to keep my stuff stock. To each his own.

[zekey]

Gooday all.

There's a lot in this thread that I can identify with.

I live in South Australia and I have been a fan if the "Klipsch sound" ever since I sold a pair of Sonus Faber Elector Amator 2's and kept the RF3's that I had only bought for my (then) teenage son to use for parties. Past speakers have also included big Duntechs and Apogee hybrid ribbons.

Like "Imperfect" I traded up to RF7's on the assumption that they would be "like the RF3's but bigger and better". To a large extent, this was true, but something about the RF7's has never sounded exactly right to me, but I haven't had the expertise to pin down what it is. My best guess was a slight "thinness" in the midrange with a tad of aggression in the top frequencies. The trademark Klipsh immediacy and "liveness" is there in spades though. I've come to realise that I value this characteristic very highly.

I investigated getting Dean's modified crossovers sent over to Oz, but procrastinated for a while and then invested in a TacT room correction preamp (sent from USA), with which I use the power amp section of a Musical Fidelity A308 integrated.

The TacT in-room frequency measurements show a top end that is certainly not flat. In the higher frequency ranges, there is a trough of about -4dB which is centred at about 3500 Hz in one speaker and -6dB centred at about 4000 Hz in the other. Both show a broad peak of about +5 dB centred at about 10 Khz (I hope I'm reading the logrithmic scale correctly).

With the TacT correction in operation and the frequency response moved closer to flat, it all sounds much cleaner, smoother and more accurate, though possibly a touch less involving on some tracks. Movie soundtracks are much cleaner and less "artificially hifi" sounding.

I recently listened to Paradigms (studio 100v3) and Ambience hybrid ribbons (big, expensive, made in Australia and a remarkable 96 dB efficiency due to neodynium magnets in the ribbon section) I thought the Paradigms were too laid-back, but I loved the Ambiences. However, my wife didn't think they sounded as "gutsy" or as live as the Klipsch. Part of the problem might have been that I didn't dare push them to the same (insane) SPL's in the showroom that are sometimes used at home for fear of causing aggro with the salesguy.

Coming home and listening to the Klipsh, I concluded that I might have upgraded to the Ambiences if I didn't have the TacT to work its magic. As it is, I think I'll hang onto the RF7's and live in hope that the Premiere series might hold the cure for my ongoing chronic upgraditis.

Sorry for the rambling, but I thought it might be needed as background to the following questions:

1. Has anyone else heard TacT room correction equipment(www.tactaudio.com) with Klipsch and what were your experiences.

2. Does the use of this level of room correction make Dean's crossover mods redundant or would they still be worthwhile. Obviously, your own opinion on this would be highly valued, Dean.

3. Any tips on stowing away on an international flight. (I want to go on one of the Klipsch factory pilgrimages...be nice to bring a pair of Khorns home with me too...."carry-on" luggage??!)

All comments appreciated

Cheers to everyone on this great forum and thanks to Klipsch

Tony M

PS Isn't a/d/s the company that bought Apogee Acoustics and then immediatly dropped the line.

[Speedball]

Hi Zekey,

The thinness in the midrange and the agression in the top that you mention can very well be cured by Deans crossover work, I am a recent happy customer.

Your Musical Fidelity A308 is a fine looking solid state integrated.

re: Warranty

Anybody it seems is selling warranties for everything purchased. Warranties on speakers seem a bit useless, they either work or they dont. Unlike jpm, I would not think of it for speakers.

[KlipsDude]

Thanks for all the info jpm, I'm going to check it out and read up on that new equip of yours, I never heard of it before, shows me how behind I am from some heres. Thanks

[KlipsDude]

zekey, thanks for sharing with us.

I can't wait to see if or what new Klipsch products are coming out. The Premiere line looks very nice but it will be's expensive and that will puts out of reach for some like me. I'm hoping Klipsch will put back out a line simular to things like the Fortes, Chorus, Cornwall for the Klipsch Guys here who will not except a 2-way design that want the mid-range horn. I would get a pair for a second system for sure, and big plus it would be all brand new and in wood color I would get to picks, all keeping in the price range of like the Legend and Reference cause the Premiere I read is going to be in the $4000.00 or so range, not pretty for me! I love big speakers, I say put the big ones back out brand new! I'll buy a pair, I promise! Heritage cost too much brand new too, for me that is.

[zekey]

I've just done a further careful comparison of the RF-7's with and without the TacT room correction to renew my perspective. It really is magic and it helps to get the very best out of these speakers. I know many of you believe the RF-7 compares with speakers at many times the price and I agree with this, but only with the TacT in the system (especially when it comes to music other than rock).

Given that it seems to me to be a marriage made in heaven and both Klipsch and TacT are USA based (at least one "branch" of TacT), I can't help being surprised that I haven't seen much about the two brands together. Most of the TacT people on their very active international discussion forum are using more esoteric equipment, but I think this just unnecessary when the "in-room" sound is being corrected. I think the best idea is to use big, efficient speakers like the RF-7 and let the RCS pre-amp tailor the finer details of the sound to suit.

Surely someone out there has experienced what I'm on about?