Unhappy with RF-7's

[Deang]

"...but something about the RF7's has never sounded exactly right to me, but I haven't had the expertise to pin down what it is. My best guess was a slight "thinness" in the midrange with a tad of aggression in the top frequencies..."

The speaker sounds great the way it is -- just a bit tipped forward on top with a touch of hash through the middle and high frequencies. This gives the impression that the cones and horn aren't perfectly intregrated, and with some music it can sound like the horn is running independantly of the cones. At high SPLs things go a bit strident and produce what I call the wincing effect.

"I investigated getting Dean's modified crossovers sent over to Oz, but procrastinated for a while and then invested in a TacT room correction preamp (sent from USA), with which I use the power amp section of a Musical Fidelity A308 integrated."

A nice product, and not all that expensive considering what it gives you. However, no amount of correction can do what good parts in a network can. It's also true that great parts in a network won't correct room problems. I do bring down the horn's resonant peak a little, which means there is less to EQ, and of course people who don't EQ get a better sounding speaker without having to resort to using one if they don't want. The insertion of high quality polypropylenes removes hash/grain, and really opens up the soundstage. No amount of EQ can do that.

With the TacT correction in operation and the frequency response moved closer to flat, it all sounds much cleaner, smoother and more accurate, though possibly a touch less involving on some tracks. Movie soundtracks are much cleaner and less "artificially hifi" sounding.

Better balance between the top and bottom is half the battle, but honestly -- you haven't heard "clean" yet.

1. Has anyone else heard TacT room correction equipment(www.tactaudio.com) with Klipsch and what were your experiences.

I haven't, but many of us do run equalizers. Though many of us don't use "high-end" units, they do incorporate Real Time Analyzers and autoEQ functionality. I like the results, but I would never substitute it for the benefits I get from the quality of the networks I use with my Klipschorns.

2. Does the use of this level of room correction make Dean's crossover mods redundant or would they still be worthwhile. Obviously, your own opinion on this would be highly valued, Dean.

You have a very nice full featured unit that also allows you to compensate for the effects on the FR by the room -- cool stuff. However, my opinion is that upgrading the parts in a network is never redundant. In fact, I tell people that they will never realize the full potential of their gear until they do it. Those who have done it know what I'm talking about.

[cjgeraci]

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On 7/19/2005 10:05:15 AM DeanG wrote:

You have a very nice full featured unit that also allows you to compensate for the effects on the FR by the room -- cool stuff. However, my opinion is that upgrading the parts in a network is never redundant. In fact, I tell people that they will never realize the full potential of their gear until they do it. Those who have done it know what I'm talking about.

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I am one of those folks, and I can honestly tell you that while an EQ (or similar device) is great to tweak things, the impact of a mod such as Dean's is much greater - and is not redundant. He is right - with respect to my RF-7s, I did not hear clean until I had Dean redo my networds. And the same has been said for my RC-7 and my Heritage gear. I also run an EQ/RTA such as what Dean is running, but start with your speakers first - and then work inwards. Had I done that for all of my speakers, I would have saved mucho dinero.

Dean, sorry I didn't call last night. We had to put a pet down last night and things became sort of hectic after I emailed you. Will call you tonight. I don't mind if things are not labeled - but the separate boards are throwing me off a bit.

Carl.

[Deang]

You have a PM.

[zekey]

Thanks for the responses, everyone.

Dean, I'll email you directly.

[KlipsDude]

imperfectcircle25, whats happen to ya? You still tryin to get the RF-7's to work for ya?

Hows it goin?

[SWL]

imperfectcircle25, whats happen to ya? You still tryin to get the RF-7's to work for ya?
Hows it goin?

Yeah.....where did you go??? he he he

I like hearing stories of people returning to Klipsch.......(we know the reasons) []

[CECAA850]

This is the mod that Dean talked me through, on my RF-7's (the extra resistor). It made a huge difference on reducing harshness on the top end. Best of all, it costs about a dollar a network. It's the best bang for the buck mod I've ever done. I kept them like that for almost 2 years untill I could afford to have Dean completely rebuilt them for me.

[rugerdog]

Could you please,please explain the conne

This is the mod that Dean talked me through, on my RF-7's (the extra resistor). It made a huge difference on reducing harshness on the top end. Best of all, it costs about a dollar a network. It's the best bang for the buck mod I've ever done. I kept them like that for almost 2 years untill I could afford to have Dean completely rebuilt them for me.

ction process for that and a parts list???

Also, is that a picture of the crossover,from an(your) Klipsch RF-7 speaker??? The reason I ask is,that's nothing at all what the crossovers, in my Klipsch RF-7 speakers,that I purchased in 2003, look like???

Thanks soo much.

[CECAA850]

As far as I know it's my RF-7. The only other possibility is that it's from my RC-7. I did all three but the process is the same. I hot glued one resistor to the other and bent the leads around the board so that they could be soldered to the same spot that the original ones occupied on the board. The resistors are wired parallel to each other when you're done. I bought them from parts express. THESE were the ones I believe.

[CECAA850]

Here's another view. You can click on the pic to enlarge it.

[rugerdog]

WOW!

That is NOTHING like the crossovers in my RF-7 speakers,those look beautiful!

Now I'm even more convinced, if my RF-7's are some sort of knock off's,or fake Klipsch RF-7's???. As I had asked in another post,I thought I have read somewhere that there are some sort of knock off Klipsch speakers's out there,and people are to be carefull about that???.But I did buy mine from an authorized Klipsch dealer????

I'll have to get a hold of a camera and provide a picture of my crossover,from one of my RF-7 speakers.I recently sold my camera setup,to have more $ towards,the changes I want or think I needed to do to my HT or audio system.

As I posted in another post,when I took the cover off the back of my RF-7 crossover area,I had to tighten the speaker connetors,I noticed the speaker connectors would just fall off the speakers,if just touched,so I silver soldered the speaker wires directly to the speaker terminals,.And I noticed the small piece of gray egg crate foam was stuffed or folded up differently in the bottom of each speaker,and was covering up the openings.I rearranged those foam pieces so their along the bottom of speaker bottom, and then go up the back of the front of speaker.

So,I wonder why my crossover parts would be so differnt from yours and if anyone has checked their speaker wire connections,inside their RF-7's,were they extremly loose like mine? And was there only one piece of foam,that looked like it was stuffed or fallen in the bottom of the spaeker and partly covering the ports???

Here's another view. You can click on the pic to enlarge it.

[CECAA850]

There's only one piece of foam in that part of the cabinet and they are sometimes prone to coming loose. As far as your crossover being different, like I said, I may have posted a pic of my RC-7 crossover by mistake. A pic of yours should clear things up. All 3 speakers (2-RF-7's and the RC-7) take the same resistor and it's installed the same way on all 3.

[rugerdog]

Oh yea,you said it's the center channel.Maybe why.

But as far as the only piece of foam,I had wondered if more foam,say on the sides and more up further, thruout the cabinet,would help the sometimes thin sound.And also, I had wondered if a fiber glass LIKE material,like the material I see for sale on DIY tweeter speaker kits,to put in with tweeters,would help,if I were to put that kind of stuff in,or behind tweeters.If I wre to pull out tweeters and put that material in there.But,I was told that would not help,from someonelse,but I still do wonder about more foam and that tweeter material.It just seems to me that the cabinets for these RF-7's are very bare,thin or hollow sounding,when I tap on them.I would think that leads to a thinner sound???

See,I'm just trying to figure out, or get all and any info I can, on what could make these RF-7's sound their best.I just don't have the money for a diff,high quality 4 speaker setup.

Don't get me wrong all,for the most part, I find my RF-7 speakers to sound fine for movies,but for critical 2ch music listening,I find,without turning down treble or spending lots of time adjusting Eq settings,the sound is too high freq.But,I just don't like doing treble or taking out the high freq info thru eq adjust.So,I'm looking to collect as much info,or opinions as I can and then make my moves.

Thanks

[CECAA850]

More foam won't help. Invest a couple of dollars on those resistors and see what you think. They DO make a noticeable (for the better) difference. It's a very inexpensive, completely reversable modification. There's really no down side.

[Deang]

That is NOTHING like the crossovers in my RF-7 speakers,those look beautiful!

That's disturbing.

I'd sure like to see what you have in there for networks.

[rugerdog]

I'll post a photo asap.

Thanks

[Guest davidness]

...The resistors are wired parallel to each other when you're done. I bought them from parts express. THESE were the ones I believe.

Quick Questions. I want to go ahead an install the 10 Ohm parallel resistor in my RF-7's and RC-7.

1) Dean, in another post, recommended the Mills 10 Ohm 12W Non-Inductive Resistor ($3.75 each). Are these still preferred over the Dayton DNR-10 10 Ohm 10W Precision Audio Grade Resistor? ($1.25 each, not that price necessarily reflects quality).

2) In addition to the speakers mentioned (RF-7's and RC-7), I have a couple of RB-75's. Should I perform the same modification to their crossover as well?

I, also, want to do this quick, simple (cheap) modification until I can have Dean perform the full upgrade.

[CECAA850]

Dean originally recomended these resistors (the white ones in my original pic) to me and they did a great job. I doubt you'd hear a difference in the two. I could be wrong however, but I would think the audible difference couldn't be discerned in a blind listening test. The resistors he now uses have to be superior in some manner or he wouldn't use them however. All the parts he puts in his crossover are of a very high quality and are most likely at the top end of the cost/performance ratio. These are the ones he uses now (the brown ones on the bottom).