How do you know what version of an LP to buy?

[rplace]

With so many version of some albums out there how do you know which one to buy?

Please excuse my ignorance as I am new to the idea of 100 dollar or more LPs. 10 bucks for an LP was a lot back in the day. My MFSL collection is growing a bit when I score them in the 20-50 dollar rangeeven that seems count-intuitive to me at some levelbut they do sound good.

How do you tell a first pressing versus later pressings? Is it simply by the year on the cover or is there some secret method I dont know about? Are they for the most part demanding higher dollars simply because they are first pressing much like a first edition book?

If you dont care about the collectors value, or the cover condition for that matter what is a good rule of thumb to get the best sounding LP?

Take big selling records like Getz and Gilberto or Dave Brubeck Time Out. Do I spend my time and effort tracking down first pressings, early pressing, and late pressings, mono/stereo or just buy the 180-200g reissue brand new and still sealed up for 20-30 bucks and be doen with it? Perhaps it is different with each title and I am now on the verge of spiraling into a deep dark chasm of searching for the holy grail of LPs that dont exist. Should I forge on or jump back to the safety of CDs?

So far my efforts are hit and miss on ebay. Some gems some turds. Lots of looking and lots of missed auctions by just pennies even with sniping software. My thrift store excursions, while limited, have proved even less fruitful.

[crazytubepower]

IMO first pressings are well worth the hype. They will have the most movement the the groves. Best bass responce. I always look for good quilty mint first pressings

[Mighty Favog]

Do they still make 1/2-speed masters?? Those used to be some of the better ones to get.

[Parrot]

----------------

On 8/5/2005 1:36:45 PM rplace wrote:

Perhaps it is different with each title

----------------

This is correct, in a simplified nutshell. If you get really obsessive, you'll get into different stampers sounding better than others.

But one big problem to keep in mind is that people have different tastes and different systems. So if someone has a rolled off high end on his equipment, then he isn't going to object to an LP that has a goosed up treble. To someone else's ears and on different equipment, that overly bright LP might be just the ticket.

Speaking of nutshells, you have to be nutty to spend $100 plus on an LP, but nobody ever claimed that collectors are sane.

[dragonfyr]

What the heck is a "first pressing"?

Are you referring to the intial release of a title?

As there is nothing to identify this, unless the label has changed or it has been in continuous release for years (at which point it is safe to guess that it is not an initial release).

I even called a few friends in the industry to see if I was missing something here. Needless to say their response can't be printed in full here! But they got a kick out of the question.

And the quality of the bulk vinyl had much more to do with the quality, especially by the mid seventies as the amount of filler increased and the overall quality of records decreased, unless you were buying the Japanese. German Polydor, or MSFL releases.

Maybe I have been doing this for too long!!?

[rplace]

----------------

On 8/5/2005 2:34:33 PM dragonfyr wrote:

What the heck is a "first pressing"?

Are you referring to the intial release of a title?

----------------

I am not making this sort of term up see for yourself

Or maybe you like the term original pressing more fiction for dragonfyr

Perhaps this will help clear up my question. If an LP was "made" first in the 50s; then again in the 60s; released again in the 80s on a different label; put out as a boxed set for x-mas in 1992; then finally put out on a 200g re-released today is there any way short of buying them all and listening to know what to buy if you only care about the quality of the music and not the value to collectors.

[fini]

----------------

On 8/5/2005 2:34:33 PM dragonfyr wrote:

And the quality of the bulk vinyl had much more to do with the quality, especially by the mid seventies as the amount of filler increased and the overall quality of records decreased, unless you were buying the Japanese. German Polydor, or MSFL releases.

----------------

It's called "Vinyl Helper."

[joessportster]

cant answer your question directly RPLACE, but i can say this anytime i have ran across the 180 gram and up albums they have had superior quality, and mfsl is a given as far as quality goes but all that aside when it comes to paying 50.00 for a single album i would save that money get 500 togeather and buy a vpi 16 or 17(for a little more of course) and buy readily available albums and clean the heck out of them i have found that probably 90 percent of vinyl i end up with is tons better to listen to than cd, and i am more often pleased with the sound than not, for this reason alone i cant see putting 30.00 and more into a single album& i couldnt begin to tell you a first press from a 100th press, i simply enjoy the vinyl sound and try not to worry if a 180 gram would be better JMHO Joe

[dragonfyr]

----------------

On 8/5/2005 2:46:57 PM rplace wrote:

----------------

On 8/5/2005 2:34:33 PM dragonfyr wrote:

What the heck is a "first pressing"?

Are you referring to the intial release of a title?

----------------

I am not making this sort of term up

see for yourself

Or maybe you like the term original pressing

more fiction for dragonfyr

Perhaps this will help clear up my question. If an LP was "made" first in the 50s; then again in the 60s; released again in the 80s on a different label; put out as a boxed set for x-mas in 1992; then finally put out on a 200g re-released today is there any way short of buying them all and listening to know what to buy if you only care about the quality of the music and not the value to collectors.

----------------

Sorry, I have been laughing over this for a bit now!

It is just as I mentioned, it was purchased near the release date - as there is NO industry definition for a "first pressing" - especially as they were made from several plants! I mentioned this as a possible meaning to your amorphous "make up a definition" term!

And no, you are not making up the term, THEY are!!!!!!

I have many direct to disk and limited (board) pressings, half-speed masters, and every imaginable pressing available, especially as I had access to direct board tapes and pressings we had made of Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Jethro Tull, EJohn, BMidler, Poco, and through Chris Michie to Pink Floyd and quite a few others as he and a few other quipies from Floyd came over to help us with Tull! Such is the benefit of working on the road with so many!

Two classic examples of different masters being used for the initial releases and in subsequent releases that come readily to mind that significantly effected the quality of the record and subsequent CDs were Aqualung and Tea for the Tillerman. And if you are too young to know the artists, I will not bore you with them.

But as far as someone identifying a 'first pressing' or labelling it as such on EBay!!!!! I defy you to verify this! Perhaps you can make a case for the initial release being better - but it is simply not necessarily true! The release of many albums were done based on different masters and all are NOT equal! And the initial release was Not necessarily the best, although generally it was.

But as you cannot readily identify them, the point is rather moot, as unless there was a change in the packaging, there is NO way to tell! So, I would not take the gimicky attempt to distinguish

a product on EBay as some gospel or even an accurate description! And I sure hope that you are not basing your purchases on such!

How someone choses to describe their wares on EBay does not a real definition make. That is unless they were dispensed by a watery tart from a pond!

I have no issue with you, but I do take exception to a manufactured term which is both unverifiable and questionable at best.

[Allan Songer]

When you get into small independent jazz labels it becomes pretty easy to define what a "first pressing" is. For those collectors where this kind of thing matters, that is. Show me any Blue Note record in 1500 or 4000 series and I can tell you with about 98% certainty if the record is or is not a first pressing.

By the way, early flat-edge deep-groove Blue Notes weigh in at about 210 grams!!!!

[ben.]

Believe it. This cat can identify Joe Henderson records with a VPI record clamp in place. Sick, really...

[dragonfyr]

Certainly there are exceptional titles where this ('first pressing' - as in 'limited pressing') can be identified, as I have already noted!

But let's look at a few of the examples cited on EBay:

DAVID BOWIE Ziggy Stardust LP first pressing

ZZ TOP "TRES HOMBRES" FIRST PRESSING! RARE

THE WHO - Who's Next First Pressing on Decca MINT

There are certainly exceptions, a classic example being Then Play On, by (the real!) Fleetwood Mac, originally issued without Oh Well, and subsequently re-issued with Oh Well and all of the other songs mis-titled.

The point is, for the vast majority of mass marketed records, it is not possible to determine this. And while there are certainly limited distribution and promotional titles, even limited release nature does not necessarily insure superior quality. And exceptions do not invalidate this.

[garymd]

Laugh if you wish but I've certainly paid more than $50 for many LPs. Some I paid in the $100 range for 3 years ago will now fetch $200+, a few considerably more. I also paid 80 cents each for about 300 jazz LPs from a guy I met at a thrift shop, dozens of which would fetch over $20 on ebay, a few over $100.

With older jazz LPs, there can be a significant difference in quality between an original and a reissue. There is also a major difference in the reisues. Some of the recent 200 gram Classic reissues are REALLY well done and are VERY close to the original. Many of those would be tough to pick out in a blind test. There are also reissues that some consider originals since they were only second or third pressings and were made very close to the date of the original pressing. These are basically indistinguishable from the original.

Some people pay big bucks for a nice bottle of wine or a Cuban cigar. Some people buy expensive albums which can be enjoyed now and will still be here (in virtually the same condition) 20 years from now.

[Allan Songer]

Amen, brother Gary!

I was OFFERED $1700 for Blue Note 1565 Clifford Jordan by a collector in New York. I have the finest original copy of this LP in the world according to him. I didn't sell it.

I know that in ten years time it will be worth much more.

I bought it from Jack Brown for $350 back in the early 90's.

Pretty good investment, don't you think?

[dragonfyr]

I think this thread may have missed the most important aspect of collecting records.

In some cases, the relative release date may have an impact on quality, I suspect more so by virtue of the quality of the vinyl, as it became worse and worse as time progressed past the early 1970's. Notably there are indeed limited pressings, and other high quality pressings on better grade vinyl where more care was taken. And these are always a joy to behold! MSFL, German Polydor, Japanese pressings, Blue Note and some of the smaller specialty lines, to mention a few, tended to produce much better records.

But the point is, these examples notwithstanding, the best you can normally do is to carefully examine each record visually, and if given the opportunity listen. And a good cleaning will work wonders on just about any record. This combined with the proper handling and care will hopefully extend the listening pleasure.

So please examine each record, if possible. And while I can say that few are worth alot of money, only YOU can determine what they are worth to you. They are only worth what YOU are willing to pay!

Some titles are only available on vinyl, while some are actually better remastered for CD. There is no making a valid generalization here, as there are valid examples as well as poor examples. For every generalization there is an exception. So avoid trying to over-generalize, and avoid simplistic categories for older records. But rather examine each one and choose wisely!

[ben.]

Thanks for the advice.

"This is what I think, but keep in mind there's a great chance you won't agree, so chalk that up to whatever..."