Klipsch RSW15 or SVS PB12-Plus/2

[pythagore]

Please, advise. I'm about to pull the trigger on a Klipsch RSW15, but

need some advices on whether the SVS PB12 +2 is a better solution or

not. I currently own the Klipsch RW-12 which is an excellent sub, but I

need a more powerfull sub to match the RF7.

Music 90%

Movies10%

See my system specs.

Thanks,

[nuclearay]

I spent many a hour/day/week/month pouring over specs from different companies. Granted, the RSW15 is a damn fine speaker, but for my purposes I ended up with the SVS and the reasons were many: I wanted a sub that would hit low (16hz) and loud (118+db) in my somewhat large room -- the frequency response is sick flat. I felt the price was right on too. Since your tastes are different (90% music) you may not have that "need" I do to get into the subsonics.

[travisc]

[]

[ajcllc]

I was narrowing this down about a month ago and pulled the trigger on SVS PB12-Plus/2. I absolutely love it. For me it seemed to be a better overall value, and for what I read regarded reviews, it is a great overall sub. (There are some other postings in the forum comparing these two subs that will be helpful in making your decision.) If you decided to go with the SVS, you won't be disappointed. Their service and product is wonderful.

[Big Worms]

SVS! It's the my next sub, in fact the exact one you mention. One note, it is HUGE.

[CAS]

Well, that really depends. Some music fans say that the RSW-15 is great for music because its frequency response gives a bit of a boost in the lower-mid-bass region which gives more oomph to a kick drum. They enjoy the "slam" this boost provides.

However, the PB12+2 will have more output and will dig much deeper than the 15. It's frequency response is also flat as a pancake (a desirable quality in a sub). I had the same predicament whene chosing my sub. You can see my decision in my sig. In your case the 15 may weigh heavily due to the 90% music stat, however for me it was the sheer brute force of the PB12+2 that put it over the top.

When my floor began to quake up and down at 16 Hz I knew there was no going back!

[MrMcGoo]

The best choice was not listed. If you are willing to pay the bucks, the dual THX Ultra2 subwoofers are the ticket. Two subwoofers will give more even coverage in most rooms, i.e., there will be more even frequency response. Peaks and nulls are the biggest problem with any solo subwoofer, not flat frequency response in an anechoic chamber. Two good subs helps more for even response in a real home theater than test report numbers.

The THX subs go down to the teens and have first class output.

Bill

[cjgeraci]

Both the Klipsch RSW and the SVS are fine subs, but if I had the choice, I would opt for the SVS. Some people claim that SVS are only good for "movie-stuff." Having owned two SVS subs, I respectfully disagree. I own the ISD version of the sub you are considering, and I find that it is musical enough in my primary music setup (90% music, 10% movies) to compliment my three Belles and Altecs. And before that, it anchored my all Reference seven system. But....word of caution is.......yes, the cabinet is large. You might want to do a cardboard mockup beforehand to see just how large the cabinet is - if that is a concern.

As for dual subs, I have to disagree with Bill. I have run dual subs, in different portions of the room - at various positions, and while you gain some advantages by doing so, you also run the risk of canceling problems - depending on where the subs are located. In my experience, dual subs always worked best colocated (or even stacked). The THX are fine subs, but I can think of another SVS box (up the ladder) that would appeal to me even more.

Good luck on your decision. Either of your options will do your RF-7s justice.

Carl.

[dragonfyr]

If I may amplify Carl's response...

This is not intended to denigrate the alternatives to the SVS. In fact, for the purposes of this post, assume the two units are identical.

A real consideration is the business model. The direct sales approach does allow a savings for equivalent products over that of the retail model. Assuming that the products are both well engineered and manufactured, there is simply less cost in the direct chain, and that savings is generally passed on to you.

So, given a scenario where you were offered identical items, one available directly or one available with the added expense of the retail market, and all other support issues were equivalent, which would you choose?

Basically, that is you choice.

That being said, in the interest of disclosure, of the commercially available subs I own, I run an SVS Ultra in one of my systems and I am very pleased with both the product and the company. I also run Velodyne HGS18 series2s, and they likewise are fine units. ...IMO the best for complimenting the KHorn or LaScalas. They are suited to different applications, but I will say that the SVS is the closest unit to approaching the Velodynes at a more attractive (read 'cheaper') price.

[MrMcGoo]

When Carl says that cancellations can be a problem with dual subs, he is correct. Dual subs are best when ideally located. If the room does not have two good locations that are open, the stacked approach may be best.

A fellow that mixes movies for a living recommends dual subs. THX has signed off on dual subs as has the Harman International (JBL) white paper. In the final anlysis, the room has to be right for dual subs. As always, there is no free lunch.

Of course, you can buy just one THX sub from Klipsch.[6]

Bill

PS: The Klipsch amp has varaible phase adjustments (not just the zero and 180 degrees) on it in addition to boundary gain compensation. The problems with cancellations can be mitigated to some extent with the Klipsch amp and EQ. The SYSTEM is properly designed to be run with dual subs. B

[cjgeraci]

If I may amplify Carl's response...

This is not intended to denigrate the alternatives to the SVS. In fact, for the purposes of this post, assume the two units are identical.

A real consideration is the business model. The direct sales approach does allow a savings for equivalent products over that of the retail model. Assuming that the products are both well engineered and manufactured, there is simply less cost in the direct chain, and that savings is generally passed on to you.

So, given a scenario where you were offered identical items, one available directly or one available with the added expense of the retail market, and all other support issues were equivalent, which would you choose?

Basically, that is you choice.

That being said, in the interest of disclosure, of the commercially available subs I own, I run an SVS Ultra in one of my systems and I am very pleased with both the product and the company. I also run Velodyne HGS18 series2s, and they likewise are fine units. ...IMO the best for complimenting the KHorn or LaScalas. They are suited to different applications, but I will say that the SVS is the closest unit to approaching the Velodynes at a more attractive (read 'cheaper') price.

Agreed - and very nicely put. My post was in no way meant to knock the RSW 15. I demoed one - liked it - and one of my good friends uses one to compliment Klipschorns. If price was not a consideration, it would be a closer fight.

I guess it also depends on what you want out of a sub. Since you are running RF-7s, you will get some good bass response from your mains - regardless of whether you set things "large" or "small" (or cutoff more specifically) so, for music - this sub should ideally act as a compliment. After all, it is not like you are running satellites with just a sub. To me, the SVS' sound usually disappears with the rest of the bass in the room. In other words, it blends in and does its job so seamlessly that it does not draw attention to itself. Other subs, such as HSU and Klipsch, to my ears, are more distinctive in sound. You can pick out the distinctive sub sound from where you are sitting. That is not necessarily a bad thing, and I also enjoyed the sounds of those subs. However, it depends on your preferences.

Carl.

[cjgeraci]

When Carl says that cancellations can be a problem with dual subs, he is correct. Dual subs are best when ideally located. If the room does not have two good locations that are open, the stacked approach may be best.

A fellow that mixes movies for a living recommends dual subs. THX has signed off on dual subs as has the Harman International (JBL) white paper. In the final anlysis, the room has to be right for dual subs. As always, there is no free lunch.

Of course, you can buy just one THX sub from Klipsch.[6]

Bill

PS: The Klipsch amp has varaible phase adjustments (not just the zero and 180 degrees) on it in addition to boundary gain compensation. The problems with cancellations can be mitigated to some extent with the Klipsch amp and EQ. The SYSTEM is properly designed to be run with dual subs. B

Agreed. You can effectively run dual subs in certain rooms, but it is really a trial and error process - and sometimes time-consuming process - depending on the room. My room was not amenable to doing so regardless of much time and effort expended (unique shape at the time). Adjustable phase controls does help, and it is helpful to the consumer that Klipsch and SVS both provide fully adjustable phase controls.

Carl.

[Frzninvt]

I run dual subs and I have no cancellation issues I can guarantee that, and I did not do anything special either! Look at what my subs have to keep up with!

I would also like to throw my recommendation out there for the higher end Velodyne subs (FSR, HGS, DD), they offer the cleanest, smoothest, non-distorted bass period! No bottoming, clack, clack, clack like some SVS models and they dig far deeper than the RSW-15 and are much, much easier to place since you don't have the rear passive to contend with. They also don't need to be as big as an SVS coffin either. A 20" cube is easy to place.

I can't comment on the Klipsch THX subwoofer system as I have not heard it but it is awful pricey though for the amplifier and dual 12's though.

Velodyne has been making subwoofers a hell of a lot longer and it is their primary business! I think they have learned a thing or two about sub building.

So many choices so little time.

[merkin]

I have the 12+2 ultra. Bought a B stock model. They are right it is hugh!!!, I don't care since it is in my basement and not in the most used family room. As far as sound, Iv'e never heard a RSW 15. I like the sound of my SVS and it has more than enough power. The coffee table upstairs dances if I crank it up. Invest in a lot of double sided tape. Since I use four forte II's I wanted a sub that would dig deeper than the RSW 15. Just by the specs if I remember right the RSW rolls off about 25hz. The SVS will go below 20 hz pretty easy. Easy sales, delivery and support.

[nuclearay]

The best choice was not listed. If you are willing to pay the bucks, the dual THX Ultra2 subwoofers are the ticket.

Bill

What does a pair of Ultra2s and an amp cost?

Just wondering.

[MrMcGoo]

The MSRP is above $3,000, but after discount, the pair is very competitive IMO. The exact numbers I do not recall. One of the mods may give the MSRP.

Bill

[dragonfyr]

I run dual subs and I have no cancellation issues I can guarantee that, and I did not do anything special either! Look at what my subs have to keep up with!

I would also like to throw my recommendation out there for the higher end Velodyne subs (FSR, HGS, DD), they offer the cleanest, smoothest, non-distorted bass period! No bottoming, clack, clack, clack like some SVS models and they dig far deeper than the RSW-15 and are much, much easier to place since you don't have the rear passive to contend with. They also don't need to be as big as an SVS coffin either. A 20" cube is easy to place...

Room mode reinforcement is influenced by placement in addition to room geometry as the Harmon whitepaper explores in depth. That being said there are ways to minimize it by such methods as the vertical stacking of units.

I like the Velodynes for the above mentioned reasons, but to be fair, I am not sure where you are getting the "No bottoming, clack, clack, clack like some SVS models", unless your intention is simply to say that other subs aren't necessarily using servo control. If you are experiencing any of those problems with the SVS, I suspect you have been 'educated' and are following the setup tips of another sub guru on the site! []

I run both the Velodynes and the SVS, and I have had no problems with the SVS other then I hate the round knobby feet (but it did offer me a chance to dance with the sub as it initially walked around the room! But perhaps that was just another example of the extra mile that SVS goes to in order to help you ascertain the best sub room placement!).

[pythagore]

Thank you all for the excellent advices. While I clearly believe the SVS is the superior sub for movies, but for music I think the RSW-15 may be the better option. Every audio equipments in my home theater room are made by Klipsch, while I'm really tempted by the SVS sub based on the comments here, but I'll stay with Klipsch.

[sivadselim]

............are much, much easier to place since you don't have the rear passive to contend with.

The passive radiator on an rsw15 is the front driver. The active driver is in the rear.

But that doesn't make placement any easier; in fact it probably makes it even harder. So your point is still valid.

[IndyKlipschFan]

You will be very happy with the RSW 15. I use it with K horns for HT movies.. just incredible

Look in profile for setup!