JTA Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 The perfect room for AK-4 Klipschorns and SS -- it should sound incredible. I would take Larry's advice -- don't assume anything -- something is not right. Did you check the speaker wires connected to the amps? It only takes one pair to be flipped to net a horrible sound. Dean, I checked every possible scenario. I would not have even posted this if I felt I left something out. My only other option is I have a brand new pair of AK-4 crossovers and drivers that I was going to use for my D Khorns. I could put them in and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 JTA, Not to sidetrack the threadok I guess that in fact is my point. I am curious with that great big space between the khorns why you did not opt for a screen and projector over the TV? Dont get me wrong it all looks great, but for a dedicated HT I would think the front screen would be much more theater like. I am interested in knowing what motivates people to pick what they do. Wouldnt life be boring if we all thought the same way? Good luck on the khorn fix, I am sure you will find the problem and love the sound once you do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I just got your email Josh. I know what's going on now. Listen, you have an equalizer, and I would encourage you to use it. If it's a good quality unit, it will in no way diminish the quality of the sound by having it in the signal path. Play within the vicinity of the following areas: 3kHz, 5kHz, and 9kHz. Trust me, something in one of those three areas is aggravating your hearing -- find out which one it is. Your CF-4s -- point them straight foward, get a bit off axis from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 rplace, Its actually a lot bigger in person. The wide angle lens I used makes it look smaller. I personally prefer the look of plasma better than projection, but the primary reason is because I will likely be moving within a year and did not really see the sense of mounting a projector and screen and ideally painting the front wall black. When I build my next home theater room it will likely have a Runco pointing a very large screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 I just got your email Josh. I know what's going on now. Listen, you have an equalizer, and I would encourage you to use it. If it's a good quality unit, it will in no way diminish the quality of the sound by having it in the signal path. Play within the vicinity of the following areas: 3kHz, 5kHz, and 9kHz. Trust me, something in one of those three areas is aggravating your hearing -- find out which one it is. Your CF-4s -- point them straight foward, get a bit off axis from them. Unfortunately, the EQ in this particular Mac is rather limited. I can bring the high end down to the point where it becomes more acceptable, but then the sound begins to sound muffled and less detailed; similar to what happened when placing fabric over the tweeter horn. Maybe I should look at another EQ if I decide to keep these. I will play with the CF-4s a bit more. Right now they are toed as they are aimed a point roughly 2-3' on either side of the listening position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klipschfanatic Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 JTA, I power my Khorns with a McIntosh MC352 and the sound is not bright Would like to suggest it could be your cables. Here are a couple of things to try in order to narrow it down. 1. Swap S/E cables instead of BAL to see if any change. 2. Swap out speaker cables to see if any change. 3. Try a PS Audio Ultimate Outlet or UPC-200-plug in the 861 & the MS 300 to isolate the digital. My system is extremely musical with no brightness, yours should sound even better. I firmly believe it is not caused by the speakers or components. If I can answer any questions please email me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 JTA, I power my Khorns with a McIntosh MC352 and the sound is not bright Would like to suggest it could be your cables. Here are a couple of things to try in order to narrow it down. 1. Swap S/E cables instead of BAL to see if any change. 2. Swap out speaker cables to see if any change. 3. Try a PS Audio Ultimate Outlet or UPC-200-plug in the 861 & the MS 300 to isolate the digital. My system is extremely musical with no brightness, yours should sound even better. I firmly believe it is not caused by the speakers or components. If I can answer any questions please email me. Man, I hope it is not the cable. This Kimber stuff was quite an investment. I have some straight copper Monster Cable non-XLR stuff that I will try later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Cable makes a difference, but not THAT big of a difference. I use Kimber 8TC -- it's not a problem. You'll get a lot of different advice on equalizers, but your situation warrants one. I use the new Behringer. You have a lot of money invested in that set up, and since it's going to be doing a lot of HT, I don't think you can do better than what you have. The other option is to embrace lunacy and do what I did: Replace the K-401 horn with Al's Trachorn, the K-77 tweeter with the Beyma CP-25, and change networks. You could go for broke and drop in a pair of Al's Extreme Slope Networks -- about $2500 total for the whole deal -- but at least you'd be happy and done with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 Cable makes a difference, but not THAT big of a difference. I use Kimber 8TC -- it's not a problem. You'll get a lot of different advice on equalizers, but your situation warrants one. I use the new Behringer. You have a lot of money invested in that set up, and since it's going to be doing a lot of HT, I don't think you can do better than what you have. The other option is to embrace lunacy and do what I did: Replace the K-401 horn with Al's Trachorn, the K-77 tweeter with the Beyma CP-25, and change networks. You could go for broke and drop in a pair of Al's Extreme Slope Networks -- about $2500 total for the whole deal -- but at least you'd be happy and done with it! I would rather not modify these only to discover I still am not happy with them and then not be able to return them. I am going to try messing around with the cable, though I do agree, I do not think it will make a noticable difference and perhaps swap in my other set of AK4s. If not though I think I am going to consider something else. Who knows, maybe there is something weird about the room that I do not know about. If anything I'd like to try another speaker for comparisons sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Let me ask the very, very obvious question (before folks get into suggestions about esoteric audio cable ....) You mentioned that the cabinets were demo models at the stereo store. What did they sound like at the store (assuming they were reasonably set up in a corner)? Was the bass lacking and the highs overly bright? If not, then the path heads toward setup, location and room treatment (although were they being run with very different electronics at the store?). If the sound was similar, then this is now an issue of trying to muck with electronics and room treatment to change the sound. I have older K-Horns (and also Conrnwalls). In my opinion (and this is certainly painting with a broad brush), the K-Horns sould sound more similar to the Cornwalls you are already familiar with. The highs should be approximately similar and the bass (with some caveats) should also be similar Good luck, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Seems like to me the bass bins are still not connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 Let me ask the very, very obvious question (before folks get into suggestions about esoteric audio cable ....) You mentioned that the cabinets were demo models at the stereo store. What did they sound like at the store (assuming they were reasonably set up in a corner)? Was the bass lacking and the highs overly bright? If not, then the path heads toward setup, location and room treatment (although were they being run with very different electronics at the store?). If the sound was similar, then this is now an issue of trying to muck with electronics and room treatment to change the sound. I have older K-Horns (and also Conrnwalls). In my opinion (and this is certainly painting with a broad brush), the K-Horns sould sound more similar to the Cornwalls you are already familiar with. The highs should be approximately similar and the bass (with some caveats) should also be similar Good luck, -Tom They were run on these very same amps, but not setup properly at all. They were not even in corners and sitting infront of them was a 15' long solid granite table. I attributed that to the fact that they sounded the way they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 Seems like to me the bass bins are still not connected. That is most definately not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Perhaps both woofers are blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 Perhaps both woofers are blown. They definately have bass, just not the punch that the Cornwalls do. They do not seem to flutter like a blown woofer would. I guess anything is possible. The bigger issue here is the harsh high frequency sounds the tweeter is emitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I think you are perceiving it as too bright because you do not have the bass bins working, for whatever reason, to balance out the sound. I don't think I've ever heard anyone before describe Khorns as too bright with no bass. The likelihood is not that tens of thousands of people are wrong, but that your speakers are either not hooked up right or have blown woofers or something else with the net effect of having no bass. The bass you are hearing is probably from the midrange horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Folded horn bass is not going to have the presence like the bass of a Cornwall, it is totally different and will take some getting used to. It is there, it is cleaner, and it is accurate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 I think you are perceiving it as too bright because you do not have the bass bins working, for whatever reason, to balance out the sound. I don't think I've ever heard anyone before describe Khorns as too bright with no bass. The likelihood is not that tens of thousands of people are wrong, but that your speakers are either not hooked up right or have blown woofers or something else with the net effect of having no bass. The bass you are hearing is probably from the midrange horn. Dude, with all due respect the bass bins are working fine. I can hear the bass coming out of them and when I really crank it up, the furniture sitting on the floor above it starts shaking. Infact, I can hear the bass 2 floors above it in the bedroom. A 400 hz horn is not going to do that. They work, they just don't hit like the Cornwalls do and neither one of them hit like the Epics do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 Folded horn bass is not going to have the presence like the bass of a Cornwall, it is totally different and will take some getting used to. It is there, it is cleaner, and it is accurate! So I have disovered. That is not a deal breaker for me. I can always add a sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Initially upon playing these, the sound from the speakers was extremely bright, the midrange horns were blarring and the bass was a bit lacking (less than the Cornwalls they replaced). On some recordings they are almost unlistenable at moderate listening levels. Dude, with all due respect, what you are describing is a defective pair of speakers. Now you're figuring that all will be fine with the addition of a sub. Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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