Poll: MONO TUBE AMPS IN HTS (Obsurd Idea, or Yea, That's The Ticket)

[Gilbert]

?<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>Obsurd, Stupid Even!Yea Hoss, That's The Ticket!!SAY WHAT!!!

[Guy Landau]

In general, HTS is a stupid idea by itself. No need to take things further.

JM2C.

[Gilbert]

Ouch, first direct HIT!!

[Speedball]

I'm not sure if tubes is a good thing or not although many guys seem to think so. Have you talked to Santa lately and did he mention bringing me a Peach tube amp?

[Gilbert]

Have you talked to Santa lately and did he mention bringing me a Peach tube amp?

No, santa's not talking to me,....I've Been A Bad Boy []

But a tube HTS is just an idea I've been entertaining for a few years. And now that I've aquired a small, but sonically matched hurd of MC60's, I was think'in about getting amp #5 and making it a 5.1 tube system.

In January of 2006 my intent is to get 2 VRD's to match up with the Blueberry (soon to be Xtreme), get a TT and use this system as my musical A#1 tube system.

The McIntosh gear is destined for a game room, when I build my house.

In all honesty, I think the idea is obsurd, stupid even.

[customsteve01]

I can't see why it wouldn't be great.

I believe "Born to Rock You" is doing it with MC30's and VDR's.

Steve

[Chris Robinson]

Tried tubes in HT and found little difference between tubes and SS. Primary reason is that the amps are being fed by SS signals so there's really no differentiation. Now, if you had an all-tube pre-amp (nearly impossible with all the signal processing) AND tube amplification, you might have something.

OTOH, DVDs and movies are an entirely different beast than vintage vinyl and 2-channel.

I say put all your SS stuff in the HT and enjoy the orgasmic waves of 20Hz sub-woofers. Put all your tubes in a nice (and separate) room with a new pair of Heritage Cornwalls and a softly-lit wet bar, low-burning fireplace and the woman of your choice.

I can switch-hit with little cognitive dissonance.

[travisc]

I really dont see why not. Alot of you guys are like a bunch a little boys at the dinner table. You wont try something new. "Do you like it"? "no" "have you tried it"? "no". Purists, oh yeah thats why your gonna put a phantom center in your 2ch. Just because pwk reccomends it. You guys strictly missionary too? Boring.

oh well Gilbert quality doesnt apply to HT might as well go out and get yourself a lifestyles system.

[NOSValves]

Hey I'm all for all tube power amps in HTS. Who's going to order the first 5 VRD's []

I personally have completely dismantled my HT system it was fun for a while but IMHO unless watching a special effects action movie for its a complete bore. I guess some people are just into the thrill factor more then I am.

Craig

[lynnm]

Rockford Audionics makes an all tube processor.

Fosgate Audionics

Web Site

46 South Rockford Drive

Tempe, AZ 85281

(866) 777-7282

Here is a review link:

I cannot vouch for this unit never having seen let alone heard one.

http://www.hedmag.com/Product-Reviews/Audio-Electronics/Tube-Romance.asp

[Gilbert]

Lynn, your gonna get me into some seriously deep dodo with the wife. Not sure about the brand name. I know they made a few quality amps for auto's way, back when, but I dunno????? I think they made more garbage than anything else, I just dunno.

OOooohh but I like it. Haven't found a price yet.....Hmmmm......thinking even more now.....and even beginning to sway to the left (or was it right?).....

I think Alan would say LEFT.[]

[NOSValves]

Gilbert,

Boy would that unit look cool with 5 VRD's line up with it.

Here was something I was playing with at one time with copper top plates I acquired from Jeff (painful reality)

[kev313]

Hey I'm all for all tube power amps in HTS. Who's going to order the first 5 VRD's []

I personally have completely dismantled my HT system it was fun for a while but IMHO unless watching a special effects action movie for its a complete bore. I guess some people are just into the thrill factor more then I am.

Craig

TOTALLY AGREE! I have a nice plasma TV and can certainly appreciate the difference btw. standard and high def. broadcasts, but unless I have an over the top action movie (which I never really do), the added benefit of my HT setup (audio-wise) does not even come close to justifying the price. IOW, for the amount of use and enjoyment I get from my Halo seperates, I should have bought a Sony ES receiver and called it a day! Oh well, live and learn.........

[Frzninvt]

First off two-channel listening is passe' it is very uninvolving and not even near as lifelike as a multi-channel environment. Ever been to a concert or live event with just two speakers or a two channel system?

I am not talking about SACD, HDCD or DVD-A I am talking just a matrixed 7 channel stereo setup with subwoofers. I can randomly switch back and forth from two to seven channel and there is just no comparison from a realism perspective.

My goal was to head in the direction that Gilbert is pondering but the differences between the tubes and high quality SS in my system were negligible and the maintenance and cost of tube rolling, etc., etc make going all tubes not really an economical and viable option. Although I have no doubt in my mind that it would sound fantastic

I also learned buying vintage amps and then have dump even more cash into them to make them sound right is a waste. If I try tubes again I am going for brand new, and that means VRD's from Craig. (What is the wait time these days? Does Smilin still have his for sale?) I have already sold the MC-30's to Joe for his collection because I was not willing to invest any further. With what I originally paid, plus what it would have cost to get them to wherever the supposedly needed to be was already putting me in VRD country so that is the direction that I will go. A brand new amp with brand new parts and more power. I will indeed miss the MC-30's they are super sexy and look gorgeous lit up and working, they sound fabulous! There just not enough of a difference to justify me keeping them.

I don't have a dedicated spot for a two channel system so I want to integrate and have the best of both worlds. I now see that my DBX BX1's can run with the best that is out there tube or SS and ad NOTHING to the sound which is and should be every amplifier's goal.

I for one think it is certainly an idea worth trying, you old farts can sit in a closet with your near field two channel systems and enjoy yourselves since you are so close minded and not open to new ideas and system layouts. If you think I cannot playback with the best of them in two channel mode you are sadly mistaken I just prefer not to listen that way. I ran two channel setups up until about 1999 from the early 70's and I am not going back in time.

[Chris Robinson]

... you old farts can sit in a closet with your near field two channel systems and enjoy yourselves since you are so close minded and not open to new ideas and system layouts.

Hey, Chas, are you insulting me and my Man Cave???? []

Seriously, though, I will probably experiment with bringing the tube gear down to the family room and run the SS and tubes together through a Niles switcher for the Klipschorns.

There is something very special about JFL's tube gear and Klipschorns in the right room. Ironically, our new family room has excellent dimensions (30 x 19 x 9) so when I need to spin up some vintage vinyl late at night, I'll be able to.

Ninety percent of what gets listened to around here are movies (kids, wife, etc.) There aren't too many hours that I can just hang by myself without being interrupted for one thing or another. Solid state is what drives most of the media around here.

[kev313]

First off two-channel listening is passe' it is very uninvolving and not even near as lifelike as a multi-channel environment. Ever been to a concert or live event with just two speakers or a two channel system?

I am not talking about SACD, HDCD or DVD-A I am talking just a matrixed 7 channel stereo setup with subwoofers. I can randomly switch back and forth from two to seven channel and there is just no comparison from a realism perspective.

My goal was to head in the direction that Gilbert is pondering but the differences between the tubes and high quality SS in my system were negligible and the maintenance and cost of tube rolling, etc., etc make going all tubes not really an economical and viable option. Although I have no doubt in my mind that it would sound fantastic

I also learned buying vintage amps and then have dump even more cash into them to make them sound right is a waste. If I try tubes again I am going for brand new, and that means VRD's from Craig. (What is the wait time these days? Does Smilin still have his for sale?) I have already sold the MC-30's to Joe for his collection because I was not willing to invest any further. With what I originally paid, plus what it would have cost to get them to wherever the supposedly needed to be was already putting me in VRD country so that is the direction that I will go. A brand new amp with brand new parts and more power. I will indeed miss the MC-30's they are super sexy and look gorgeous lit up and working, they sound fabulous! There just not enough of a difference to justify me keeping them.

I don't have a dedicated spot for a two channel system so I want to integrate and have the best of both worlds. I now see that my DBX BX1's can run with the best that is out there tube or SS and ad NOTHING to the sound which is and should be every amplifier's goal.

I for one think it is certainly an idea worth trying, you old farts can sit in a closet with your near field two channel systems and enjoy yourselves since you are so close minded and not open to new ideas and system layouts. If you think I cannot playback with the best of them in two channel mode you are sadly mistaken I just prefer not to listen that way. I ran two channel setups up until about 1999 from the early 70's and I am not going back in time.

I am not "close minded". I have tried a matrixed setup with my sub for music (as opposed to HT) listening. Didn't like it. To these ears it didn't sound as realistic as my 2 channel setup. The "ever been to a concert with two speakers" argument just does not hold water if you are discussing a good two channel system. With most recordings the sound stage and imaging of my two channels makes a multi speaker set up sound like sound effects. Maybe it is because I am rarely at a concert where I have speakers behind my head.

I guess that makes me a thirty year old "old fart."

[NOSValves]

First off two-channel listening is passe' it is very uninvolving and not even near as lifelike as a multi-channel environment. Ever been to a concert or live event with just two speakers or a two channel system?

I am not talking about SACD, HDCD or DVD-A I am talking just a matrixed 7 channel stereo setup with subwoofers. I can randomly switch back and forth from two to seven channel and there is just no comparison from a realism perspective.

My goal was to head in the direction that Gilbert is pondering but the differences between the tubes and high quality SS in my system were negligible and the maintenance and cost of tube rolling, etc., etc make going all tubes not really an economical and viable option. Although I have no doubt in my mind that it would sound fantastic

I also learned buying vintage amps and then have dump even more cash into them to make them sound right is a waste. If I try tubes again I am going for brand new, and that means VRD's from Craig. (What is the wait time these days? Does Smilin still have his for sale?) I have already sold the MC-30's to Joe for his collection because I was not willing to invest any further. With what I originally paid, plus what it would have cost to get them to wherever the supposedly needed to be was already putting me in VRD country so that is the direction that I will go. A brand new amp with brand new parts and more power. I will indeed miss the MC-30's they are super sexy and look gorgeous lit up and working, they sound fabulous! There just not enough of a difference to justify me keeping them.

I don't have a dedicated spot for a two channel system so I want to integrate and have the best of both worlds. I now see that my DBX BX1's can run with the best that is out there tube or SS and ad NOTHING to the sound which is and should be every amplifier's goal.

I for one think it is certainly an idea worth trying, you old farts can sit in a closet with your near field two channel systems and enjoy yourselves since you are so close minded and not open to new ideas and system layouts. If you think I cannot playback with the best of them in two channel mode you are sadly mistaken I just prefer not to listen that way. I ran two channel setups up until about 1999 from the early 70's and I am not going back in time.

This entire posts sounds to me like someone that has never had a 2 channel system that portrays music at its best.

My first thought to this statement "Ever been to a concert or live event with just two speakers or a two channel system?" was when have you ever been to a live event that had surround sound? Every event I have ever attended had a large stack of speakers either hanging or standing up on the right and left of the stage. I've never witnessed speakers spread all over the concert hall or to my knowledge do they use some matrixed multi channel processing.

Craig

[Gilbert]

CB, you did not give the tubes a sincere, or even honest chance. After a few hours, or day of listening, come on dude, your smarter than that. And I believe Craig is correct about the concert set up, all I've ever seen is a pile of speakers on both the Left and Right sides of the stage. And I've seen some pretty crazy concerts, Pink Floyd included.

Yes, you are correct with the direction you should have gone, i.e. The VRD way. It was the exact same direction I was advised to take, by several well experienced tube guru's. All these guy's said the same thing...."Get the VRD's, or buy refurbished gear directly from the main source (i.e. places like AudioClassics)". Drop the idea of buying vintage mac from unknown sellers, it's will be too expensive and you WILL have to rebuild them, it will cost you a small fortune.

Well,.... I was too hard headed (what else is new, right), and I was also fixated on experiencing that famous McIntosh sound. It was a childhood dream thing. Sorry Bonzo, but it is an established fact that the McIntosh sound is sought after....NOTE, I didn't say it was the best sounding, that would be ignorant.

Believe me when I say, I am paying the price for not listening to the experienced tube guys. After my first pair of MC60's were rebuilt by Craig, the difference was noticeable, and distinctly better. Now, every piece of tube gear I've bought is going to be fully restored. And it's not because I like spending money doing it....It's because it is a necessity with everything vintage. From audio gear to cars to planes to lawnmowers, ....You Name It Dude.

Even my original, precious MR71, which I thought was the only piece of tube gear that worked like-new or at least 90%+, because everything seemed to work properly. Well, that belief was shot down in flames when it got replaced with the completely refurbished unit I recently purchased. The comparison was legit, because the later unit went into the exact same set up....the difference in sound, profoundly better. Now my original unit is sitting in a box, waiting for some tubes to cross the Atlantic. By the time I get all the tubes, and after Richard is done doing his thing, there will be another grand+ tacked onto the original purchase price. Pheeew! Am I ever paying for not listening.

LISTEN UP ALL YOU TUBE NEWBY'S....IF YOUR THINKING OF GETTING VINTAGE TUBE GEAR....BREAK OUT YOUR WALLET, AND MAKE IT SPREAD EAGLE, BECAUSE YOUR FIXING TO RAPE YOUR BANK ACCOUNT.

After all is said and done; After Craig rebuilds every piece of vintage tube gear,... guess what's going to be driving the audio signals in my MAIN 2 CHANNEL SYSTEM,....it will be VRD's and an Xtreme. And believe me, 2 Channel is KING for music...on that there is no doubt.

And I think I have the experience to make that statement.

The mac gear is great, I do not regret it for even a minuet. For someone like me, it was inevitable, it was and now is, a dream being fulfilled. It's also killer sounding, and an investment. Sorry again Bonzo, but the mac gear I buy today, will be worth more down the road, guaranteed. Also, every piece of restored equipment is Plug and Play, sorry yet again Bonzo. Anyone care to refute those last 2 statements?

Will I pursue an all tube mono HTS, most probably.....Remember that statement above, where I mentioned I was hard headed?

[Frzninvt]

I have heard some incredible two channel systems over the years, and I am sure you guys have some pretty impressive setups, but I have just changed directions and prefer the multi-channel array to the standard two channel. Remember it is all personal preference here, and this is merely my opinion and what I like. Everyone hears differently and likes certain things, what works for me does not necessarily work for everyone. I am certainly not trying to push my preferences on anyone. You guys have no idea where I grew up and the systems that I have seen and heard over the years. Trust me when I tell you I have seen and heard some of the best there is in the US and Europe so I certainly know what good sound is.

Gilbert, I have not closed my eyes or given up on tubes all together, not at all! I still have faith I am just going with new the next time around. The MC-30's while indeed impressive were just not for me, not that much sonic difference from what I have. I will see how something new performs in the same situtation soon enough.

[Gilbert]

The MC-30's while indeed impressive were just not for me, not that much sonic difference from what I have. I will see how something new performs in the same situtation soon enough.

Remember, what several people noted on those MC30's, they were ill, and in need of repair. You even mentioned that one of the Power Cans was loose, let alone 45+ years old as Craig pointed out. Even the caps were a mis-match and the wrong type.

You did not make a fair comparison, and the time spent was way too short.