Planars

[CAS]

If there is a great difference in clarity I'll think about experimenting with these. Considering we all have an affinity toward the standard cone and magnet/box design Klipsh produces, I was wondering how some people feel about planars/electrostats/quasi-ribbons. It appears they require significant size in order to produce good full range response.

They certainly have a unique look to them, but does anyone here have significant experience enough to give a good opinion of their sound quality (or value)? I would probably use these in a 2.1 setup exclusively.

Honestly, they look pretty exciting.

[leok]

I used a pair of Magneplaners for years. I don't remember the model,

but they were a bit over 5' tall .. pretty big. Discussing only the

frequency region where they were effective, probably over 100Hz, and

comparing that with the same region of my current Chorus-IIs and RF-7s:

I was initially atteracted to the Magneplaners because they had a

relaxed, natural sound, unlike the harsh and tizzy sound I was used to

"with other speakers." So that's about it for the Magneplaners, they

produced a natural sound with an OK transistor amp (any of several NAD

models in the '80s).

What I didn't know at the time was most transistor amps, including my

NADs have unacceptable levels of distortion at low power, but very low

distortion at high power. It's a property of the physics of transistors

and can be effectively addressed with very good ss design. But many

transistor amps are designed to be cheap and bullet proof. Low

distortion at low power is not part of their final solution. Anyway,

I'm convinced my Magneplaners sounded good because they used enormous

amount of power so that the ss amps were operating at high power where

they produce the lowest % distortion.

I've since learned enough about amps so that I now have a collection of

tube, pwm, and ss, that are optimized for low distortion at low power.

The resulting sound through both sets of Klipsch speakers, which use

only a fraction of the power the Magneplaners used, is easily as

natural sounding and detailed as the Magneplaners.

I also happen to prefer the more focused radiation pattern of a horn,

that minimizes interaction with the room. I don't have any interest in

the dipole affect. It was really the Magneplaner's tolerance of

mediocre ss amplification that attracted me to them in the first place.

Now that I can get the same, or better, natural sound from a horn,

that's my prefered approach.

Leo

[ZAKO]

Planars are pretty inefficient. I can piss louder than planars.

[whell]

A couple other notes about Maggies, and I suspect this is true of other planars: They sound great, but only within an awfully small (or so it seemed to me) sweet spot.

Also, within Leok's post, he mentions that his Maggies were effective above 100 HZ. There were some Maggies that were designed for HT, and required the use of a subwoofer. If these were the speakers he had, that may account for the high rolloff. However, don't expect ANY Maggie to be the last word on bass response.

[oscarsear]

I was always interested in these types of speakers as well. Last year we went to an open house in a very upscale home. I could hear some reasonably good sounding music as I entered the house. It struck me because most of these homes around here use those in-wall systems making the whole place somewhat like an office building tour. These were planar speakers of no small dimension set-up in an A/V array but being run only as 2 channel plus sub at the time. I don't recall which brand but if the rest of the home was indicative of quality then they must have been costly.

They did make a pure sound but without much definition. They sounded, well, linear like music from all frequencies was emitted top to bottom from these large screens..indistinct in imaging. Obviously it wasn't a good overview of performance but it was an eye opener. T'would be good if you could locate a vendor willing to let you trial various set-ups.

[PrestonTom]

CAS,

Interesting question. The sound is quite a bit different than a Klipsch.

On the positive side ( and I am generalizing across a number of models). The mids & highs are clear &superb. The imaging can be incredible.

The downside: they need a big amp capable of providing high current. They are difficult to position in a room (lots of tweaking - but is critical for the imaging and clarity). The bass can be weak. They do not always sound great (dynamic) when played loud (varies across models). These last two problems are magnified if the amp is not adequate.

In spite of this I keep a pair of Maggies & Marti-Logans around the house. The do very well on small ensemble classical music, esp choral, baroque and early music. Some day I will get rid of them, but I have been saying that for a few years now.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[sfogg]

Planars are pretty inefficient. I can piss louder than planars.

Were you the guy quoted as saying basically that(and mentioning K'Horns) in some audio rag 5 or 10 years ago?

Shawn

(Maybe in The Audio Critic or Sensible Sound.....)

[texas42]

I've owned several ribbon designs within the past few years. Specifically, the Carver Amazings (Silvers, Platinums and currently have a pair of ALS-IIIs);, Magnepan 1.6QRs and MMGs and Eminent Technology LFT-VIIIs. I thoroughly enjoyed them all. I'd rate the Carver Amazings as the best of the bunch if you can find a pair used (they are no longer in production although Carver is coming out with a new "Amazing" speaker but at around $5K). Of the newer affordable offerings I preferred the Eminent Technology speakers which, to my ears bettered the Magnepan 1.6s and was more comparable to the 3.6s, at less than half the cost. The ETs cost about $1600 and have a 8" woofer for bass as well as a nice sounding ribbon. The benefits of ribbons are, as previously stated, crystal clear highs, pinpoint imaging and lifelike sound. However, there are no free lunches....Ribbons are inefficient and have a narrow window of enjoyment. Dynamics can be somewhat compressed as well. They are a good 'change of pace' from horns I guess and enjoyable. You have to pick your poison though. I'm one of the few that like both designs (horns and planars). Most love one and hate the other. Just my two cents...

[D-MAN]

There are 2 basics to planars, the first being the power requirements.

That is generally high so a high current SS amp is in order.

Second is the placement - they NEED to stand out well into the room and away from any walls, especially BEHIND them.

This alone is enough to make "correct" placement a problem, unless one has a dedicated listening space for them.

The benefit is that they image like crazy between the two; the size of the soundstage presentation is determined by the distance that they are separated.

I think that the LARGE ones produce prodigious bass, suprizingly.

But I consider the placement absolutely critical and quite limiting, i.e., they end up in the middle of the room, for the most part, and that is difficult ot live "around", IMO.

DM

[Deang]

Wow, they make a subwoofer for the Klipschorn.

http://www.eminent-tech.com/RWbrochure.htmhttp://www.eminent-tech.com/main.html'>

[Parrot]

"A missing link in sound

reproduction. Experience special effects like never before. If you

want to hear and feel the 4-5 hertz fundamental frequency from a

helicopter rotor, the low frequency rumble of wind, the space of a

concert hall or infrasonic information contained in an explosion,

this is the only woofer technology available."

- from link above

[TBrennan]

A pal uses this rig using B&G planar-magnetics (monopole) and dipolar 18" Eminence woofs. The sound is huge, detailed and effortless but much power is needed, it sometimes trips the JVC chip-amp receiver shown and sounds it's best with more power.

I like this rig alot. Note that it's in a large room, I think that helps quite a bit.

(Who can spot the Oris horn?)

[JeffDurbin]

Regarding the ET subwoofer, that was in another thread.

I was at a high-end store last night and listened to some Maggies. It was 'easy' background music being played so they weren't really pushed. I am tempted to get a pair of the $550 direct-from-factory specials just to play with. I need to get my THX Ultra2 system first.

They had one pair of surrounds in the corners and another hanging from the ceiling. I originally thought the ceiling pair were acoustic treatments.

[jacksonbart]

Planars are pretty inefficient. I can piss louder than planars.

You should see a urologist

[hwatkins]

I agree with both Maron and Whell.

My Maggies may have been the best sounding speakers I ever owned - however, due to the placement constraints of most rooms you end up with an extraordinarily small sweet spot (not to mention that most folks such as myself that are over 6 feet tall can get quite irritated when standing and having the sound change). It was way too much like having huge headphones.

To repeat - they still have a great place in my heart when I was able to stay in that sweet spot. A music room with one chair would be just right and leave you smiling...

[jt1stcav]

I too, owned a pair of Magnepan MGLR1 planar loudspeakers for quite awhile, and loved their overall sonic characteristics! When you were positioned within that magical sweet spot, clarity and detail was in abundance. Imaging was spot on, and the soundstage was huge.

As wonderful as they performed, due to their inefficientcy (86dB @ 1W/1M), they gobbled every bit of power from my McIntosh MC7200 power amp (300 WPC @ 4 ohms) at higher levels. Like others have said, Maggies do require high-quality, high-power, high-current SS amplification...I doubt a mediocre receiver from Best Buy would cut it. They do need to be pulled away from both the back and side walls since planars speak equally from both sides; positioning is especially crucial with them (if your floorplan will permit it). As far as I'm concerned, a subwoofer is a requirement for any Magnepan model; my MGLR1's bass response only went down to 60Hz, so my DIY 15", 500 watt subwoofer did the trick nicely. And a large room is paramount IMHO for them to sound their absolute best.

If you can meet their requirements, go for it and get 'em! Magnepans are truely wonderful sounding loudspeakers IMO...they still amaze me how they operate, and how a true life-like sound can emanate from a slice of mylar film surrounded by magnetic strips (the wood side panels/structure on my MGLR1s were only 1.25" thick)![Y]

[TheEAR]

Planar speakers,sound amazing when set up well and you sit in the sweet spot.They do not go very low,you need a sub cut quite high centered in the middle(cut at 100Hz,80Hz with very large panels).

You need a very high quality,very high power amp and here no receiver will do.Used with a Bryston 4B ST or an amp along this qiality and output capabilities.

You have the amp to drive them,go for it.Dont have the amp,forget about it unless you are ready to get one.

[TheEAR]

Jim,,

Great show,now you are talking McIntosh and Carver gear [] and planars...

Always liked Bob Carver designs,gear for the people, good quality and power to spare.

[jt1stcav]

Jim,,

Great show,now you are talking McIntosh and Carver gear [] and planars...

Always liked Bob Carver designs,gear for the people, good quality and power to spare.

Thank you, sir. Coming from you that means alot!