svs

[silent hill]

I know that SVS sub's are one of the best sub companies out there, but is the PB10-ISD sub any good?

Is it good compared to an Athena AS-P6000 sub?

Here is a picture of both subs!

[Trey Cannon]

Try asking that question on the SVS site...

[Scp53]

i would say that the SVS rules in all ways. build quality, sq, depth, spl, etc. the ONLY thing about the athena that MIGHT is on music. I m guessing that the athena is tuned higher and may be punchier on music. thats just a hunch. just make sure that you have a decent receiver to control the x over for the sub as the svs has none(thats if you get the svs). scp53

[Paul]

You may want to look at these Killer subs as well,Definitive technolgy i heard the cube 1,2,3 and trinty,loud,very tight and deep,All of them work amazing for both music and HT but a little expensive for most.

http://www.definitivetech.com/loudspeakers/subwoofers/subwoofers.html

[MrMcGoo]

The Klipsch Sub-12 will kill them both.

Bill

[Speedball]

Try asking that question on the SVS site...

Funny how that place is too cheap to have their own website, it would be popular.

[dblue]

The Klipsch Sub-12 will kill them both.

Bill

Not even close. I recently helped a buddy set up and install the

PB10-ISD...it exceeded my expectations for a 10" sub. It goes

flat down to 18 Hz with authority, besting even my 25-31PCi for a

smaller room. I was blown away by it's output. The Klipsch

sub 12 is not even in the same league (Sorry Trey, but even though I

know the policy is not to discuss SVS here too much, I can't let this

guy be misled for no good reason...).

Anyway, it's a great sub, and will outperform anything at that price point by a longshot. I'll shut up now.

[MrMcGoo]

It must be an amazing sub, that PB-10 ISD. It can break Hoffman's Iron Law. And with such a small amp.

Bill

[dblue]

Hey, no need for sarcasm here. Here's home theater secret's review:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/svs-pb10-subwoofer-10-2004.html

As for hoffman's iron law, it's not like this thing is small, at 18" H x 15" W x 21" D....if I'm not mistaken, box size is one of the variables that plug into mr Hoffman's law.

You should hear (and see it) it before you make such statements.

[Trey Cannon]

No foul...

I just wanted to point out that this is a KLIPSCH forum and more info on products other than Klipsch should be able to be found on that products site. IF NOT, then I would queston the product more.

[Petrol]

No foul...

I just wanted to point out that this is a KLIPSCH forum and more info on products other than Klipsch should be able to be found on that products site. IF NOT, then I would queston the product more

I agree []

[ancientdude]

Flat down to 18hz?

Not even my pc ultra is that good.

[CECAA850]

That would be in room. Anechoic, flat to 20Hz, +-3dB. Your PCU should do better than that.

[MrMcGoo]

A brief look at the Klipsch numbers versus the SVS PB-10 ISD numbers reveals that the Klipsch sub is more conservatively rated at 1% distortion and plays 7 db louder at 30 Hz, a frequency that can be heard. The SVS never made it over 110 db versus the 117 for the Klipsch. Bigger drivers do matter.

Extension below 30 Hz and even 20 Hz is into the subsonic level for most humans. Most folks do not hear much below 30 Hz. At 30 Hz, most current Klipsch subs kick like a mule and do well with both movies and music.

Bill

[CAS]

A brief look at the Klipsch numbers versus the SVS PB-10 ISD numbers reveals that the Klipsch sub is more conservatively rated at 1% distortion and plays 7 db louder at 30 Hz, a frequency that can be heard. The SVS never made it over 110 db versus the 117 for the Klipsch. Bigger drivers do matter.

Extension below 30 Hz and even 20 Hz is into the subsonic level for most humans. Most folks do not hear much below 30 Hz. At 30 Hz, most current Klipsch subs kick like a mule and do well with both movies and music.

Bill

I thought it was just 2 channel people who still say they don't use <30Hz. Think of it this way Bill. If my sub is an instrument that is used for everything below 80Hz and I don't think I need anything below 30Hz, I'm robbing myself of nearly 25% of material that is clearly recorded on music and movies (yes, both routinely go into the teens. Believe it or not. Many times it is those without subs capable of such feats who don't think they need the extension. If you don't routinely hear (feel) it then I understand your disbelief). That's not acceptable. If your RF-7's stopped playing 25% of their material you would call that unacceptable as well. For many people, the lowest octaves are some of the most important for their subwoofer. The realism obtained from actually feeling your music or movie into the subsonics is irreplaceable.

I'm not saying one sub is better than the other. I am saying that the notion that subsonics aren't important is somewhat outdated.

[CECAA850]

A brief look at the Klipsch numbers versus the SVS PB-10 ISD numbers reveals that the Klipsch sub is more conservatively rated at 1% distortion and plays 7 db louder at 30 Hz, a frequency that can be heard. The SVS never made it over 110 db versus the 117 for the Klipsch. Bigger drivers do matter.

Extension below 30 Hz and even 20 Hz is into the subsonic level for most humans. Most folks do not hear much below 30 Hz. At 30 Hz, most current Klipsch subs kick like a mule and do well with both movies and music.

Bill

Using this logic as a basis for buying a sub would put pro-sound eqip (subs) in most HT's. Peavy and JBL would be all the rage. I'd say (from owning a Klipsch sub) that they are awesome for music and OK with movies. (RSW-15 and THX Ultra2 excluded as being great for BOTH).

[Orange Peel]

Who's SVS??? [] haha j/k Buy what you like, if you can demo both do it, if not, it's your money, and you have to live with the decision. I have heard them both, and you can see what I own.

[Colin]

old SVS tubes, not the same SVS box, but excellent graphs:

http://206.225.87.49/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html

[MrMcGoo]

I chuckle at the idea that I'm missing out on anything below 30 Hz with my philosophy. Proponents of the sub 30 Hz performance tout sound pressure levels that cannot be heard and claim I'm missing sound that cannot be heard. This is not great logic.

The Sub-12 outperforms the PB-10 by 7 decibels in the relevant region. This is close to an order of magnitude better performance in the relevant area. The other side of that coin is not that there is no performance below 30 Hz. It is down 6 db at 24 Hz which puts it about the same territory as the PB-10.

How much information is there below 24 Hz? There is less than one octave that is rarely used and is not audible. And for this the original poster should give up a substantial amount of audible performance? I think not.

BTW, my personal sub is the RSW-15 which falls off a bit below 25 Hz. It can shake the house down, probably due to the combination of the big driver and the big amp. In order to get a major improvement over a properly designed 12 inch sub with a 300 watt amp, you will need at least a 600 watt amp or larger.

Bill

[kramskoi]

hello and thanks for the response on the sub-12...can you substantiate about the response on the sub-12 vs. the pb-10...have you tested it with AVIA, trueRTA etc.? I note that the FR for the sub-12 is 24 Hz (-3db)...so is this a SPL measurement? Is this an extrapolation or is it actual observed performance numbers?[*-)] I find it amazing that for it's popularity, there is no one that has tested this sub (test tones, frequency sweeps, blind listening a-b, etc.) if only to integrate it properly into their HT/music system...fascinating! Equally fascinating is the lack of head to head reviews of Klipsch vs. other subs.

Spending between $500 and 1K for a sub is not a casual thing for most like myself. I'm turned off by the svs-pb10 because of issues with it's internal bracing and tone/pulse (30 Hz) decay (enclosure resonance) and it's lowered "relative" output (though it is amazingly linear) compared to other subs in it's class. It does'nt seem to have much headroom at reference level listening and would appear to operate at it's limits in the most demanding program material. It's really too bad, because i was quite taken with this sub for a while, at least until i ran into the article about the resonance/output problem and it's lack of features.

I'm looking for a system Q in the .5 to .7 range and i'm not sure the pb-10 can deliver this. I have an m&k dual 8 which is sealed and i don't want to give up the musicality for mere extension. I'm looking for a sealed sub which is ruler flat to 30 Hz(anechoic) in the $700 range at most...if it's even possible...else i may just go with the vtf-3 from HSU and be satisfied until i can trade up to an onix rocket ufw-12 or better. I like Klipsch products...(my HT uses Synergy mains, surrounds, and a IFI sub stacked with a dual-8 m&k for bass duties)...but subjective opinion backed by hard data is more convincing to me. Please send along anymore tidbits of information on the sub-12...thanks again[]