Deang Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 The tweeter caps should be the two smaller cans on the boards. If you remove the screws and lift the caps, there is a good chance one or both are leaking. These boards are in very bad shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 You type faster than I draw. We need measurements from the other networks. Meagain. It would be nice to get all the networks you currently have over to Bob for testing. Shoot me your shipping address and I'll ship you some networks you can use while Bob is testing. I suppose if Bob wanted he could send you a set of his as well. You would have two different things to compare to each with the confidence of knowing that the parts all good. No predictions on which you will prefer, but I think you would enjoy sorting it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Just for the sake of curiousity, what are the new crossover points and slopes with the different values? The increase in ESR will reduce the output of that driver, I think the slopes should remain about the same, and every doubling of a value should result in an octave shift of the crossover point? (though there will be some discrepancy about the crossover point with a change in output, but we can ignore that for now). I just would like to know the end result of this out of spec crossover. Though if Jeff doesn't hear a difference with this, I can certainly see how he didn't hear a difference with the time delay either [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Who, you remember that time-delay thing? [] Bob, I'm not surprised that you find them to be out-of-spec. From what has been said so far, I don't completely understand what the different readings would be and what that would do, if anything, to the sound. If I understand this far, there is a sum total (I don't know why sum is important) of 2 ohms off. And so what effect would that have on sound? If I heard a difference, I wouldn't have gone through the previous posts, and I sure wouldn't have bothered to send them to you. So, maybe I'm deaf, and ignorance IS bliss. I did hear some differences between equipment at Born2RockU's. That subject will be another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Saaaay .... what's a coupla Ohms ...... When ya got 300 watts ......[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Saaaay .... what's a coupla Ohms ...... When ya got 300 watts ......[] Are you saying all we're talking is an efficiency drain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Jeff, Sort of a sloping efficiency drain. Would not be seen at all in the lowest frequencies, a little in the midrange and a lot in the high frequencies. Also, the crossover point from mid to tweet is somewhat off. I realize you are just a poor struggling lawyer, but for well less than one Franklin note I can make these things perform like new for you. Bob Crites bobcrites@centurytel.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 It ain't the money, Bob. Trust me. What I am struggling with is why I can't hear a difference with Rick's re-caps. The point of this is not to do with the money. Instead it has to do with when you suggest it'll be good for my ears, I want to hear it, so I can thank you and mean it. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Jeff, Well, I think I can hear when the tweeter caps get to about 0.5 ohms ESR compared to good caps. That was based on some instantaneous switched testing of caps I did perhaps a year ago. I think most here would hear a difference as great as yours at 2 ohms. I haven't, of course, tested what Rick put into the set he sent you. He mentioned some of the caps being NOS and that is not a good thing, in my experience with caps. I think caps age about the same rate sitting on a shelf or in a crossover. Perhaps they even age quicker if not in use. I know that some think it works that way. So, I think you would hear a difference between the way your old crossovers sounded and the way they would sound with new good caps in them. I can't say if you would think the difference was an improvement or not. They would just be back to the way that Paul Klipsch liked them back in the 70s. The laws of physics haven't changed since then, but your old crossover caps have changed since then. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleJ Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I had Bob Freshen up my AA's for my '78 K-horns and there was a HUGE!! difference. My crossovers were in really bad shape even though from the naked eye, they looked fine. Just for the record, I didn't do the BEC smell test. [] Best bang for buck upgrade, IMO. JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwhaples Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 To anyone interested, I have some A/AA net works that Bob built. I bought them for some Belle cabinets,but the deal fell through. I've tried to sell them here for what I paid for them off Ebay twice. They are no good to me now,so if someone wants to use them while they ship theirs off for a rebuild just pay for shipping. When your done,maybe someone else can use them for the same reason. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleJ Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I'll take them, Larry..Sent you an e-mail JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 c'mon Jeff - Do it! He already has them so it makes sense. Then report your impressions. Bob - besides the caps, is there anything else Jeff's x-overs could use? Besides that brass screw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 meagain, That is it. Just new caps and the right screws in the inductors and they will be right. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwhaples Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I'll take them, Larry..Sent you an e-mail JJ Got it, Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 BEC (or anyone) - What choices would be available in the caps? And would the ears hear any differences between them? I read something about Kimber? And Auro(sp)something? All I know about them is that I think they are yellow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Upward-sloping decrease in efficiency. Interesting that this came up because of a number of threads that have accused (if you will) Klipsch horn-loaded speakers of being bright. To some, maybe it would tame the unwanted brightness. To others, maybe it would sound like when you get out of a pool and "pop" the water out of your ears and everything opens back up again. Is that the idea, Bob? BTW, when will you expect to be finished with Jacob's (whtboys) crossover re-caps? He's from Houston, and he and I are keeping up. He says he's having you do them. So, it will be interesting to hear what he thinks as he has lodged some complaints on the sound quality of his newly-acquired Corns. It was I who directed him to those Corns, and I'm wishing well for him since I always loved my Corns and still do. Also, go ahead and e-mail me what you charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 meagain, You can get lots of opinions from various members of the forum on different caps. From me, though, you get "A good cap is a good cap". It should be polypropylene and it should be right on capacitance and very low in ESR. That fits every brand you are likely to hear mentioned here except Jensens. I personally like the GE Polypropylene in oil oval cans. They test very good and are likely to outlast the others because they are made for industrial use. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Hey, Bob. Is the idea I expressed on the sloping decrease sort of right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Jeff, I think Jacob is just getting some caps from me to rebuild his crossovers himself. Well, if one did think the balance of highs to the other ranges was too "bright", I think you would want to cut them back some other way besides using bad caps to do it. For one thing, bad caps just continue to get worse. I personally think the K-77 tweeter needs all help it can get from good caps. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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