whtboy Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Hi all, I just got an old pair of Cornwalls. One tweeter is dead and I am ordering a pair of diaphragms tomorrow from BEC. I'm thinking about buying Bob's crossover rebuild kit which provides new caps and mounting parts. Can someone give me an overview of the pros/cons between just doing a polypropylene cap upgrade vs. going with one of the alternative xover designs available from DeanG and "friends"? In the end I'm hoping for more natural detail and clarity, and (unless I don't understand basic loudspeaker design) to not hear male vocals coming from all three drivers at the same time. Thanks! -jacob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Jacon, As I put it, Why turn the clock back to 1970 when you can turn it forward to 2006! Put new caps on you "stock" network and you return you speaker to 1970. The networks from Dean and I are modern designs that will move the clock forward instead! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I have the Dean networks and they do use more modern and different components. The difference in the sound quality was staggeringly significant and well worth the price of the upgrade. (and I don't even use tubes) JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2RockU Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Stay in the FUTURE ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I have the Dean networks and they do use more modern and different components. The difference in the sound quality was staggeringly significant and well worth the price of the upgrade. (and I don't even use tubes) JJK A couple of points are being confused here. If the original components have deteriorated, then a replacement will have an obvious benefit. If the circuit is redesigned then there could be a big difference also, hopefully an improvement. If, however, the circuit is not re-desgned and the components were not deteriorated, then simply putting in fancy/expensive parts (with the same electrical values) will have little if any effect. I believe the biggest differences lie within an actual re-design of the circuit. However, these differences may or may not be "better". Good Luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtboy Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Are there price lists anywhere? It appears the search function isn't back up yet. -j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Let me offer another perspective. It all depends on how much you are into the hobby. If you want to understand where changes and upgrades will bring you, then you need a baseline. The baseline would be a rebuild of the stock networks with closely matched components to what Klipsch used (BEC). I recommend you go there first since it is not that expensive and you can understand how the speakers were meant to sound when new. If your crossovers are 20 years old or more you will notice a dramatic improvement just making this change. Then, definitely look to the future. The circuit changes in upgrading make a BIG difference. If you don't care about understanding how they were supposed to sound from the factory, by all means consider going directly to the upgrade style networks. Again, it all depends on how into the hobby you see yourself. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 As a person who has ALK crossovers built by the man himself AND Bob Crites crossovers.... I can tell you this: Replacing the worn out caps in your crossovers will return your sound to factory spec. Unless you do this you will never know how good your speakers sounded when they were new.... which is pretty darn good, IMO. Going to the future of technology, with Dean or Al's crossovers will fine tune your sound and squeeze out the last few percent of possible improvements to your sound. Comparing the sound of worn out stock crossovers to state of the art crossovers doesn't mean anything. It is simply not an apples to apples comparison. It is not very expensive to restore your crossovers to spec. IMO a prudent thing to do before springing for new crossovers. My advice would be to enjoy your speakers, stock first. Otherwise, you will have no standard from which to judge the state of the art Dean and Al crossovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 What everyone else said. You WILL hear significant improvement when upgrading to 2006 technology, whether starting from the original crossovers or re-capped original crossovers. I did it with my Khorns, twice. Only you can decide if it's worth spending extra to hear how they sounded from the factory. If I were in your shoes (and I am), I'd save money and jump right to Dean's Super B's. They're great sounding crossovers. He's building a pair for me right now (I hope[]) for my 1980 Corns which are completely stock and have never been touched. Being the original owner, I can't say I've heard any deterioration of sound quality but that's like saying you can't tell that your kid grew 2 inches over the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intotubes Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 The baseline would be a rebuild of the stock networks with closely matched components to what Klipsch used (BEC). I recommend you go there first since it is not that expensive and you can understand how the speakers were meant to sound when new. If your crossovers are 20 years old or more you will notice a dramatic improvement just making this change. Nto to quibble but based on previous threads from meagain and Jeff, the difference may not be as dramatic as touted on this forum. Maybe subtle would be more correct. Or dramatic to some may be subtle to others. I don't know. Nonetheless I am planning on replacing the caps on my '86 corns sometime soon. But they sound so darn good now I hate to take them down long enough to do the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 The rebuilt to stock of my '73 corn networks by BEC was a dramatic improvement. But, they were over 30 years old. The funny thing was that I though they sounded pretty good before the rebuild.....until I heard how they were supposed to sound. I also had Bob do my '90 LaScala networks (AL-3). I did notice an improvment, but not nearly as much as on my corns. But, it makes sense since they were only 15 years old. I also had Bob do 2 pairs of Heresy networks, '80, and '83. The sound improvements in those speakers were more than the LaScalas, but less than the cornwalls. Again, it makes sense do to age. I think it is reasonable to expect a significant improvement in sound, if your stock networks are in the 20 year range, assuming everything is still working properly. Finally, I upgraded my AL-3s to Deans Super AAs. Everything you hear about such an upgrade in these other threads is totally true. I did numerous comparisons with Deans networks vs. other Klipsch, DIY, and rebuilt AL-3s. Dean and Al have really got it going. That's all I can say. Those networks are the real deal and offer a BIG step up from the stock networks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I should add a disclaimer to my comments. That is in addition to my opinion on bang for the buck, I have a corny and sentimental appreciation for Mr. PWK. I actually get a warm and fuzzy feeling listening with the awareness that this was the same, or very close to the same sound he would have checked off as passing the test to ship. Of course, he paid people to do the testing on the assembly line. What I am speaking of is what he approved as spec. It's just an affection thing and some genuine satisfaction with the sound of music. NPI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggerIsBetter Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 "In the end I'm hoping for more natural detail and clarity, and (unless I don't understand basic loudspeaker design) to not hear male vocals coming from all three drivers at the same time." Then you should go with one of the steeper slope designs from Dean or Al. You could certainly through in a few new metailized PP caps from parts express for little money....just don't expect magic unless your old caps were really worn out or you like bright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 You will notice on your network caps that PWK tested and wrote the actual values in crayon on the caps. So this means you have to buy a bunch of caps, an expensive cap tester, then find some that exactly match the value wriiten on the cap, not the value from the manufacturer of the cap. Save yourself a whole lot of trouble and purchase the networks from someone who already did all of this micky-mouse stuff. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorcoll Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I have tried the ALK and the AA type from BEC in my '84 Khorn and I preferred the second (BEC) one. The ALK was too bright in my system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 This sort of brings to mind the differences between the so-called "British sound" and the "American sound". I think of that as being heavy on the midrange (i.e., liquidity) vs. the seemingly US-preferred "flatter" band pass. Even the so-called subset of the "American sound" like the "West Coast sound" vs. "East Coast sound" is interesting, too. I have no idea what that refers to... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtboy Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Just in case it helps to clarify my current condition, my Cornwalls were manufactured in '76. From what I've read I'm guessing my caps are in pretty bad shape. Do old caps just make the souund more harsh or do they actually affect the slopes and/or crossover points each driver sees? -jacob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intotubes Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 So, to mildy hijack this thread: Is there no crossover upgrade for newer Cornwall II's? Is the best performance to be had by putting in new caps of the old values? *deja vu* I feel like I asked this before...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Whtboy, What you should hear is someone took the socks out of your tweeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggerIsBetter Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Yes, but in some rooms/situations you might wish that you could put part of the sock back on....that's were it gets "interesting". I would not assume that your caps are worn out, if they are leaking (or signs of leakage) that's a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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