Wardsweb Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 I am one happy camper. ClearAudio Champion 2 with an SME 309 arm and Benz Micro Glider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Reading this thread makes me wonder what the "DIGITAL BOYS" are thinking. They are prabobly saying "What a bunch of fools comparing their analog systems again" [][][][] you have no idea [] One thing that intrigues me though is all the concern with aesthetics...how come we don't see any high end utilitarian designs? you know, something that sounds great (even according to esoteric owners), but doesn't have a huge price tag because it's not prettied up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmikid Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Some major drool pics in this thread, and... you don't have to read the text, because you can't. It's all in Dutch. [] http://www.hear.nl/2003/forum/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Very Nice Champion II! What are you using for phono preamp duties? Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 "5. I am insane. " Max, So am I. Finally after waiting months for the right deal, I will be adding the external flywheel to my Aries setup. Klipsch out. Now that I want to hear about. I have seen a flywheel setup quite recently and reported on it here a week or so ago. The owner claims enormous differences have been realized with it - he might be right - I am stil trying to decide between going this route or the German route with a 3 motor setup. BTW - what is the mass of that flywheel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 ...how come we don't see any high end utilitarian designs? you know, something that sounds great (even according to esoteric owners), but doesn't have a huge price tag because it's not prettied up...The Champion II is both utilitarian and good-looking; the two non-resonant acrylic plinth layers separated by suspension pods probably make for a very quiet, "black" background TT. Max's TT is a kind of ultimate in that direction. Gary's classy-looking Basis TT likewise is focused on being utilitarian because its appearance is dominated by a thick non-resonant acrylic plinth and suspension pods (I can no longer get to his thread w/pics). My Basis takes a similar approach. Jazman's flywheel will probably take motor speed variations down to the vanishing point. Some accessories that provide clean power waveforms free of EMI and RFI (Clearaudio, VPI, PS Audio, apparently Belkin) will also clarify LP playback. The improvement from all these approaches and features can be audible to quite audible.The equivalent in digital would be a heavy, non-resonant disc transport mechanism and placing the CD player or transport on an anti-resonant platform. Power improvement can make a difference, though probably smaller than with TTs. Many of these things do have price tags, though. These days, it probably isn't possible to sell expensive high-performers if it doesn't look pretty, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardsweb Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 Very Nice Champion II! What are you using for phono preamp duties? Klipsch out. Here is a pic showing the Audio Mirror PP1 phono pre / line stage and my Bottlehead 6DN7 amp during some testing before placing the ClearAudio table. All this pushes some Altec A7 Voice of the Theatre speakers that I veneered in walnut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Max, I don't know the exact weight, but I think it's between 15 and 20 lbs(6.80kg-9.07kg). It's a substantial chunk of stainless steel. I'm expecting it to arrive before the end of next week. The benefits, I'm sure you know, are suppose to be better speed regulation and lower noise. I have the heavy stainless steel housing for my motor, so I did not want to go to the new production, motor/flywheel integrated units shown below. This setup economizes shelf real estate, but does not appeal to me with its looks. The Clearaudio three motor configuration should be wonderful. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Ward, You're the first I've seen with the 6DN7 amp. How do you like it compared to your 2A3? Are you using Magnequest iron? Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Obviously I am the odd one out here, but those price tags Larry refers to are one of the reasons I decided to follow the second-hand (i.e. Thorens) route. The following is obviously biased, nevertheless let me report on a listening session I experieneced last week. Equipment: Tannoy Westminster Royal (an interesting speaker IMO), some (new) Accuphase pure Class-A integrated amp, a (admittedly basic) VPI TT, cartridge LP Ebony from Benz, phonostage was an Aestethix Rhea. I was fortunate in having the listening room all to myself and the equipment had been on for some time. LPs played were a mix of some Living Stereo reissues, Sonny Rollins' Way out West' in its Analogue Productions reincarnation, Eric Clapton's 'Unplugged' and a record called 'La Folia' which used to be very popular to demonstrate gear about 20 years ago. Some of those LPs I knew/own - others not. I think I spent about two hours in front of that rig and although tonally not really my case, there's no denying it sounded really good - but shouldn't it do that considering prices? Next I had to do some some shopping but coming home I was of course interested in listening to some of those LPs on my gear. The outcome you can guess: those LPs did sound pretty good at the dealer (certainly one of the better demonstrations), but somehow it was not a listening experience that made me want to rush and change or even tweak my own gear. Or, to but it more bluntly: those LPs sounded better in my place - partly due to the fact that at 'living room-friendly sound levels' even a Westminster Royal cannot produce a bassline that is as clear as a proper sub can (but that's another topic). Now in their days those TTs of mine were of course as expensive as some of those Clearaudio/VPI TTs of today, so 'good' vinyl playback cannot be got for nothing, but if one does not mind some more classical looking TT, I think the second-hand market is a valid option that shouldn't be underestimated (and that does not have to mean Thorens []). Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardsweb Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 Ward, You're the first I've seen with the 6DN7 amp. How do you like it compared to your 2A3? Are you using Magnequest iron? Klipsch out. The Bottlehead Single Ended eXperimenters 6DN7 amp is quite remarkable. Kind of a little giant killer, even when built totally stock, as I did. It comes in at whole whopping two watts, but that isn't a problem with me running Altec A7's that are 104dB efficient. The sound is warm with crisp highs and nice bass. A lot of thought went into this design and as a result this amp is dead quiet. My speakers can be very unforegiving and reveal any hum in an amp. Bottom line is: it is now in my living room and my Paramours are on their way to Georgia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 It sounds like it's a true bargain, especially because it's a integrated. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 How much does this Champion II cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardsweb Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 How much does this Champion II cost? Retail : ClearAudio Cahmpion II table $3500 SME 309 arm $1800 Benz Micro H2 Glider $800 Be patient and keep a watch on Ebay and Audiogon. These all come up from time to time and can be had for a lot less than retail. Guys at this level are obessive about their gear, so it will be like buying new without the price tag. I bought mine from a dealer on the west coast. It was a demo table he was moving to make room for a newer table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 I'm almost ashamed to show my TT here, so many expensive and beautiful ones. Mine is the one I bought new for $325 in 1975 - Bang & Olufsen Beogram 1900 with a MMC4000 cartridge. It has a three spring suspended sub chassis that holds the platter and the tone arm, and a secondary suspended sub sub chassis that isolates the motor for the belt drive. The B&Os only use their own cartridges whose attributes are matched to those of the tonearm and the rest of the table. Because of this engineered matching there are no adjustments except stylus pressure, which is recommended to be 1 gram (I track at 1.2). I have played records every day since 1975 and the table has never given so much as a hipcup. I have been collecting MMC4000 cartridges (have 4 now) because they are no longer made and the replacements (for $449) available are inferior. The MMC4000 has a flat response to 45K thus avoiding what most cartidges do - resonate around 17-19K giving the top end a little too much sparkle. There must be an advantage to a TT that has made as many platter revolutions as this one - its dead quiet. All the control are mechanical rather than electronic, so there is nothing to fail that could not be fixed, but nothing has failed yet. Anyway, I love this TT and won't be looking to replace it until is fails. I have and adapter so I can continue to use the MCC4000 on regular TTs when that day comes. Pauln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 This is a picture of my Basis in a clear finish. Mine's in black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardsweb Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 I'm almost ashamed to show my TT here, so many expensive and beautiful ones. Mine is the one I bought new for $325 in 1975 - Bang & Olufsen Beogram 1900 with a MMC4000 cartridge....snip Pauln Paul no need to appologize for your table. The hobby is a love of music. There are many roads to audio nirvana. The destination is not the object. The journey is what is important. We live, we learn, we work and best of all, we have some fun along the way. I've got a B&O 8000 with a MMC 20CL in the back room. It's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 How much does this Champion II cost? Retail : ClearAudio Cahmpion II table $3500 SME 309 arm $1800 Benz Micro H2 Glider $800 Lol, any decent quality TT option out there that costs under $500? How bout under $200? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardsweb Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 Lol, any decent quality TT option out there that costs under $500? How bout under $200? There are plenty in the secondary market. Check out Audiogon under the analog section. My Rega is still a fine turntable and can hold it's own with higher priced models. It took a quantum leap in performance to warrant my upgrade. Depending on your taste, tables like speakers can add their own sound signature. Denon direct drives are nice, the older Rega Planar 3 with a RB300 is sweet, and there are many that are tweaking old Thorens and Duals. You should check out the turntable & tapes section of Audiokarma.org . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 No more snap, crackle, pop for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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