RF 7's

[MrMcGoo]

Aussiemark,

There is no speaker that I know of that can cure poor room acoustics. We listen to our room as much as our system. Get the room right, then make a decision about the speakers.

Also, all Klipsch speakers need a good front end. The RF-7s in particualr benefit from better amplification. The vast majority of receivers do not produce the current required by the 7s. The RF-7s have a minimum impedance as low as 2.8 ohms. Rent or borrow a good amp (200 wpc for solid state) and try the 7s again. Some of the harshness will go away. DeanG's mod takes care of the rest. But remember, room acoustics are critical.

Bill

[ancientdude]

Hey klipsdude

what are you running for amplification? preamp? cd?

[TheEAR]

Aussiemark,

Sounds like you did not listen and compare with competing designs for too long before buying. I use my RF7's with very smooth and powerful amps,I tried with my 3802 and now sold 5800 and found the sound on the agressive side.With higher class amps like the Celeste Moon W5 they are fantastic and no longer fatigue me even at high volume,unless I decide to lose some hearing at a crazy high SPL.

RF7's are all about punch,explosive dynamics and can play with little effort at volumes you would find opressive.But a careful match with the amp is key IMO,also those who use tube amps will like more often then not the RF7 qualities.

[aussiemark]

My gear is as follows...Denon AVR 4802amp,Toshiba sdk 350 dvd player,old Yammy tuner,kimber coax interconnects between Toshy and amp and sub and amp Sub is a Velodyne hgs 18 and obviously the 7's with some Kimber 4 tc speaker wire to be delivered tommorrow.

[MrMcGoo]

TheEAR has tried the Denon flagship receiver, I've tried the Pioneer flagship receiver that weighs 65 pounds. Our results are the same. Receivers do well with 8 or 6 ohm loads. The RF-7s play like 4 ohm speakers IMO due to 2.8 ohm minimum.

Bill

[wuzzzer]

Some of this may have already been covered, but I'll let you know what I experienced with my RF-7s.

What source are you listening to that causes that harshest sibilance(overemphasized S and Z sounds)? Is it equal with all sources or is it mainly when listening to a CD? I've found that about 75% of my CDs sound very poor at loud levels with RF-7s. However, almost all DVDs, FM radio and TV broadcast sound awesome.

Please don't waste money on expensive speaker cables! I can guarantee that you won't experience any benefit from using them.

Speaker placement is huge with RF-7s. Are they very close to a side wall? How tall is the ceiling in the room they're in? Do you have them toed in so they're facing directly at you in your main listening position? Experiment with them...you'll like the results.

[aussiemark]

I would greatly appreciate your recommendations on amplification.Obviously you would not consider anything other than seperates.I'm only just recovering financially from the 7's and as such I ask is it feasable to use the Denon as a pre for the time being, purchase a seperate amp with a view to getting a matching pre when funds become more readily available.I would dearly love to listen to the 7's being driven by value for dollar seperates to compare and decide if it is the amplification which is causing my before mentioned concerns,Thanks MrMcGoo you've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know on the subject and I thank you for your time

[aussiemark]

Wuzzer the source that concerns me most with ear fatigue is TV.I purchased a set top box made by Sherwood SD ,$230 AUD,I thought they all did basically the same job of grabbing the signal from the air.I do have the 7's toed in facing my seat directly in front of my Toshiba 127cm SD rear pro 16 ft away from my seat.Ceiling height 9 ft .I would have thought my heavy carpets and heavy curtains would hinder top end reproduction as against listening to them in a tiled room with double sliding glass doors. Thanks mate

[MrMcGoo]

Your Denon will do ok as a processor. I use my Pioneer as a processor which drives two Sunfire amps. In your part of the world, I would look at Rotel 2 channel amps like the 1080 and 1090. The new Rotel digital amps are a possibility as well. There are probably local brands to look at that we don't know much about in the US.

Bill

[leok]

In adition to what Dean said about the RF-7 crossover, you need an amp that delivers very low distortion at low power (that's where sibilances are) to clean up harshness and distorted sibilances. My best success has been the Crown D-45, and no-feedback tube amps (oneSET and one PP). I guess there are feedback tube designs that don't mess up sibilances (Thebes seems to have one with his Bogen) but one has to be careful. Most ss amps are a disaster in that their % distortion is greatest at low power so they trash sibilances.

When you get RF-7s right they are very impressive and smoth. I'm listening to them right now driven by the SET amp. Music is string quartet. Smooth as can be.

Good luck.

Leo

[m00n]

ausiemark,

Take the Blue pill and these guys will show you just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Me? I tend to take the purple pill. []

[leok]

aussiemark,

I forgot to mention that many of the new PWM (digital) amps also handle low power quite well and can deliver reasonable power .. all of that without the endearing crankiness of no-feedback tube amps.

Leo

[KlipsDude]

Hey klipsdude

what are you running for amplification? preamp? cd?

Hi, I'm running McIntosh Amp and Pre, the MC500 and C100. The CD Player is Marantz SA-11S1 Reference, and the IC are Ultra Reference, and the speaker cable is Ultra-Fat Reference III bi-wire.

I've been under the impression I over paid for the speaker cable but the hifi guy talked me into it, saying it makes a difference. I like how well the cables are made and the easy connect with the banana plug and lock, but thought it was probably just a gimmick. Now that I have a 2nd pair of Klipsch RF-7 speakers, I switched between both speakers while playing, the 2nd pair has just regular 10g. copper ox.free wire and the 1st pair the Ultra-Fat Reference III bi-wire cable.

I'm hearing a difference, the regular wire sounds more narrow and much more forward, the reference cable sounds more wide sound, more over-all silk smooth, more well rounded bass and tighter with more grip, overall music has a tad more detail, easier to hear, with more pleasing vocal clarity. I'm really shocked, I actually here a difference. Now I'm going to have to buy another expensive reference cable for the 2nd pair RF-7 when I get my second amp for it, now I'm gonna

have to spend more $$$ again because I've gotten used to the nice cable sound and I don't care

for the more narrow and forward sound of the regular wire. I guess some cables do make a difference in sound! It helps me get

more silky smooth sound from the RF-7's. Who would have thought, guess I just learned something new cause I thought it was just

a gimmick but maybe some cables really do what it says.

[ProStereo]

The RF-7's are great speakers, hope you get your problem solved, just be patient and you will tackle down the source of the problem. Keep us posted with your success. [8]

[aussiemark]

I certainly will keep you informed as to how I go.First tweak is the Kimber 4tc.Then probably a dedicated power amp that can drive well into the 2 ohms world.You people are fair dinkum tops and I really thank you all for showing concern and sharing your wisdom and advice to me.I shall overcome my hic cup.

[Zen Traveler]

Three weeks ago I had my RF 7's delivered and

was extremely happy with their sound.However after breaking them in so

to speak for around 40 or so hours I found that when I gave em a bit

they sound harsh and almost lispy on the s's.I own a Denon 4802 which

isn't a particularly bright amp and backed the treble off to -6 whereas

it was either on + 6 or pure direct with my Yammy 1000's..My

furnishings are heavy carpet and heavy curtains.The sound while

exciting and alive,not to mention loud is to my dissapointment somewhat

fatiguing on the ears after a while especially at decent volume.A

mate told me that they will smooth out a little over time and to also

get some Kimber 4tc speaker wire.Has anyone else had a similar

experience with the 7's and if so what was the remedy if

any.Thanks

I hope you find a solution to your problem. I don't know what

differences there are in the Denon AVR 4802 and the Denon AVR 4802R

(which is THX Ultra II certified) but my system is not harsh at all. I

won't discount that more power would make them run more efficiently;

however that would seem to effect the woofer's performance more than the

tweeter's wouldn't it? [:^)] I would guess your room would have

something to do with your situation, but if you have heavy carpet and heavy curtains

I wouldn't think you would be having a lispy problem unless you

have a low ceiling or a large room.

How big is your room? The reason I may get away without having a bigger amp is because I have a small room with high ceilings (approx.16x20 with A-Frame ceiling)My Home Theater is basically in my library so I have alot of books that act as room treatment (I will try to get a link to the photo section).

My last thought is if we are still talking 2-channel it may be the source material. FWIW my Denon/Klipsch RF-7 based Home Theater handles multichannel material flawlessly, IMO [] I don't have much gain on my front speakers and I have my side surrounds lowered by 3 dB. My Rear RB-75's I have set to +7 dB and I always have the volume between -20 to -12 and achieve clear dialog and vocals within Reference range.

[aussiemark]

My room is 5 by 7 yards long with 9 ft ceiling. My amp is a Denon AVC A11 SR which I thought was the American equivilant to the 4802 R. 7 by 125 watts or in my case 2 by 160 running only the 7's.As the main source of ear fatigue comes from TV I ask is there a difference in audio output between various Digital Set Top Boxes using optical cable.

[Deang]

"Now that I have a 2nd pair of Klipsch RF-7 speakers, I switched between both speakers while playing, the 2nd pair has just regular 10g. copper ox. free wire and the 1st pair the Ultra-Fat Reference III bi-wire cable. I'm hearing a difference ..."

Adding a bunch more wire you don't need will do that. Also, your 2nd pair of RF-7's are positioned differently in the room than the first pair. Room interaction is undoubtably responsible for the differences you are hearing -- certainly more-so than the wire.

"Now I'm going to have to buy another expensive reference cable for the 2nd pair RF-7 when I get my second amp for it, now I'm gonna have to spend more $$$ again because I've gotten used to the nice cable sound and I don't care for the more narrow and forward sound of the regular wire. I guess some cables do make a difference in sound! It helps me get more silky smooth sound from the RF-7's."

So which is it -- you love the RF-7s just the way they are, or you like them better when they sound "silky smooth"? Be careful, or the next thing you know you'll be thinking about upgrading the parts in your networks.

[Deang]

Aussie -- I use Kimber 8TC on my Klipschorns. I'm not one to sing the attributes of this or that cable -- I picked the 8TC because I felt the braided geometry would offer some shielding. Don't expect any earth shattering improvement with the wire changeout.

Instead of droning on with an explanation of why you are experiencing what you are (pretty much covered by Leo anyways) I will simply give you two solutions:

1) Sell the RF-7s and find another set of speakers.

2). Sell the Denon -- and buy a nice tube intregrated.

I don't know anything about digital converters for television -- all I know is that I've never had a positive audio experience with Satellite or Broadband.

[aussiemark]

Thanks for your advice Dean.What would you recommend in terms of a nice tube intergrated?My very last comment on this subject as I dont wish to drone on and on is simply this Dean with due respect to your good self and to the quality of the RF 7's ....why would you be required to do modifications on so many 7's if people were satisfied with the product initially??