Visited Smilin' - VRDs and umm..... Cornwalls

[meagain]

VRDs are here. What's nice about them is the Walnut matches each other extremely well. If they are butt up next to each other, the face appears as cut from one piece. Nice. Now I need tubes!

Smilin' has these 7 foot tall? Epiphany speakers in Rosewood. Stunning. They sounded so clear & pristine in the mids/highs. It was a real treat to hear such speakers through a presumably great system. Smilin' - That Nils Lofgren piece you played was NUTS! What was that? It sounded like a great recording & maybe I'll pick it up to see if I can get some of that magic on the khorns.

I spun around and whooo! Cornwalls. Zebrawood. Totally unlike the Zebrawood pictures I've seen. I expected them to be basically intense stripeing over a very light background much like white raw maple. Nope. Nice & warm/golden and not 'overly exotic intense' like I thought. Very elegant. Well - anyway - they are in my house now! [] They have Dean crossovers & binding posts instead of the screw things.

Didn't even listen to them first. Smilin' said one of the horns was messed up, but we're not hearing it as of last night. Will relisten today.

Our impressions differ than what I've read here a few months ago about the sound. Almost a flip flop. And what's weird is, they do some things better than the khorns, and the khorns do some things better than the Cornwalls. But not in ways I've read they're supposed to. LOL I'm confused as heck about it. []

I'd be curious to hear Cornwall owners' impressions over the bass. This is the big thing on the plate right now... I want to see if our impressions are in line or off.

THANKS SMILIN!!!

[Jeff Matthews]

I stated previously that I think the Cornwalls produce a bass that sounds more intense - like they are trying hard. Not a bad sound at all. The sound is good. It just seems that you "feel" more of the intensity of the Corn's effort.

For whatever reason, if I recall correctly, they seemed to impress more with funk and disco and rock that is close to the funk/disco genre.

Again, if I recall correctly, the KHorns play this same music with a more "stand-back" sound along the lines of "I can do this much more easily." Maybe a little colder???

Kind of like Angus Young. If he wasn't bobbing up and down and slobbering all over himself in a guitar frenzy, would he still be Angus? Eric Clapton could pull off the same song without anything more than some toe-tapping from his stool - but it wouldn't be Angus.

[meagain]

But Jeff - How would you describe the bass? At least in relation to your khorns?

I.e; - would you consider the Cornwall bass tight or boomy?

[Jeff Matthews]

I never understood the use of tight vs. boomy until more recently. In other words, as I understand it, boomy is not fast and precise.

Though I might have said somewhere in the past that Corns were boomy, if I did, I did not mean muddled or not precise. I meant along the lines of what I tried to describe above.

The Corns have a very accurate bass - to me, anyway.

The KHorns seem to smash bass all over the bottom 2-3 feet of surrounding walls for a real wide, enveloping soundstage - at least when your within 5 feet or so of both speakers. The Corns have a smaller sound stage.

I think the smaller sound stage provides (in some cases, maybe) a better imaging of music when separation of left and right is more crucial or impressive.

Maybe that's why they say a 30 foot wide room is optimal for KHorns. My KHorns are in corners 15 feet apart. I mean when I turn it up, they just smash bass everywhere. It's like having a soundstage that is more on-center even though the speakers are on the left and right corners.

Now, imagine when you have those songs where the bass guitar comes out of either the left or right speaker predominantly, while guitar and keyboards come out of the other. A smaller sound stage, I am thinking, helps to maintain that "feel" of the recorded separation.

IDK anymore. What do you think?

[Allan Songer]

Cornwalls reproduce ACOUSTIC bass as good or better than any speaker I have ever owned. They are terrible with electric or electronic bass found in pop and rock recordings--it is THEN that they can be described as "boomy" or "uncontrolled."

At least thats how I hear it.

[LarryC]

There was a long, very thoughtful thread on comparing C/W with KH bass, and I hope someone can come up with it for you. The length of the thread alone indicated that it's not an easy comparison.

[Jeff Matthews]

..... which might support one of my first posts after I acquired KHorns that KHorns were better, but not 3x better. Corns remain the best bang for the buck.

Waiting on your comments, Meagain....

[meagain]

Cornwalls reproduce ACOUSTIC bass as good or better than any speaker I have ever owned. They are terrible with electric or electronic bass found in pop and rock recordings--it is THEN that they can be described as "boomy" or "uncontrolled."At least thats how I hear it.

And comments like that are puzzleing because we glean the opposite. More tolerable for rock/electric bass and intolerable for Jazz. Acoustic bass is big, non-detailed, non-tight, indistinct. Muddy plucks. I guess they sort of ring out or reverb. Too 'big'. Boomy.

On harder music it's still boomy, but it's more tolerable for that?

I told hubby they have a rep for doing good with acoustic bass/jazz and he was shocked. Bass on Khorns very tight/punchy/distinct/fast. Isn't that interesting?

I need to hook up with Dean and inquire about the crossovers in them. And I need to play with them more.

[Jeff Matthews]

We might be headed toward agreement on this issue. Try this....

Play some disco on both and see what you think. "Cuz' she's a Brick House.... She's mighty, mighty...." []

[MarkBK]

.......I [] They have Dean crossovers & binding posts instead of the screw things.

Didn't even listen to them first. Smilin' said one of the horns was messed up, but we're not hearing it as of last night. Will relisten today............

IF the horn is messed up, it must be from those hair blowing volumes Smilin' prefers....ehh Steve [6]

[Strabo]

I never understood the use of tight vs. boomy until more recently. In other words, as I understand it, boomy is not fast and precise.

That is one piece of it. Boomy can also mean having an uneven response where one note/frequency overpowers the rest.

For example, rooms resonate which creates a boost in the 35-40 hz range that could be as much as 10dbs. This would cause what is known as one note bass. Some speakers also do this because of cabinet resonances. Poorly implemented ports can also do this.

So boomy can also mean too much bass.

[Piranha]

The Cornwall is a great speaker for all genres of music (and not at ear bleeding SPL's). If the bass doesn't sound good, it's either a lousy recording, or perhaps you have some limitations with one or more pieces of your gear (i.e. preamp, amp, source). Or it could even be as simple as a placement issue?

That's MHO for what it's worth.

[meagain]

Same littany of source material, same gear as the khorns. Maybe the crossovers?

The other weird thing is they are more comfortable than the khorns when there's alot of stuff going on in the music. I didn't have to reach for the remote during these parts to turn down the Cornwalls. They seem to handle it better. Again - opposite of what I think should happen. Now I question what's up with my khorns.

[oldtimer]

Try hearing some live music of different types of bass and listen again. See if you still have the same opinions.

[Jeff Matthews]

Same littany of source material, same gear as the khorns. Maybe the crossovers?

The other weird thing is they are more comfortable than the khorns when there's alot of stuff going on in the music. I didn't have to reach for the remote during these parts to turn down the Cornwalls. They seem to handle it better. Again - opposite of what I think should happen. Now I question what's up with my khorns.

Ain't nothing up. Remember how everyone tried to steer you to Corns when your initial inquiries stated you did not want to consider KHorns?

Those Corns are THAT good. Alot of bang for the buck, eh? []

What you're describing is what I think is the smaller sound stage as well as a little less mid horn.

[meagain]

IDK Jeff - I don't think a cornwall should sound smoother/cleaner than a khorn. Especially when things get complicated with the music. I have to think about that. Perhaps it's simply the room. We're going to do a drastic relocation effort this weekend to try to open the khorns up more.

Maybe the Cornwalls are crossed over differently? Maybe more is through the bass than normally allowed? IDK

I wanted to do a Heritage HT which is why I bought the LaScalas when they were presented to me out of the blue. If I had to pick one to stay - it's going to be the cornwalls. Such personality! Just have to sort out this bass issue.

Oh! And the horns are damped. If that's the reason why they sound more comfy - I'll do the khorns ASAP.

[tillmbil]

Are you placing the speakers in the same room? I have been busy of late and wow...am I reading this right, CW's, La Scalas and VRD's? Boy did you get the bug. I think what I read in an earlier post was correct, slow down and listen to the music.

Cornwalls vs. Khorns, I just happen to have both but the CW's have all my good sources. Anyway, the CW's really shine when you give them some room. In a great room they will really do you justice. I feel the bass is tighter/faster and the mids smooth, highs...well that depends on the source. With VRD's they are tame, with bad SS they are screaching. But soon I will have some real quality SS to try. I am going to purchase a MC402 and then I will be able to give a good comparison between SS and tubes.

I find it hard to beat CW's for classical, Blues and Jazz. Sometimes on heavy rock-n-roll I think there could be a better mix...source or speaker.

JMO

[J.4knee]

Cornwalls reproduce ACOUSTIC bass as good or better than any speaker I have ever owned. They are terrible with electric or electronic bass found in pop and rock recordings--it is THEN that they can be described as "boomy" or "uncontrolled."

At least thats how I hear it.

Perhaps one of the best descriptions of a CW bass I have ever read. I agree completely.

[meagain]

Actually, assuming "good" means tight - how can bass be proper on one type of music and boomy on another? This makes no sense to me. I would think if bass is tight on one thing, it would be tight on everything.

[Piranha]

FWIW....I sold my La Scala's because I liked the bass response from my Cornwalls MUCH better. And that applies to all genres of music. Others around here prefer the La Scala/Belle Klipsch horn loaded bass. They're certainly not my cup of tea, but to each his own.