jwc Posted April 1, 2006 Author Share Posted April 1, 2006 ESN700t. Drops 20dB right at 700Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 JW, A good way to test a woofer is to place your mike about 1/4 Inch from the woofer dust cap. This overwhelms the room efects. Do the response again with the mike right in one of the ports. The actual response is the combination of the two curves in the correct proportions. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 I was just thinking if this would work or not... If you are building a pair of loudspeakers specifically for a given room and want the flattest possible response, then wouldn't you want to test and tune them from the listening seat with the room effects included? Don't get me wrong, I somewhat know the ways of tuning a speaker for the flattest response, but that's just for the speaker, which obviously does not include the room they are going into. This is understandable for a loudspeaker company, but for someone like us who like to build our own, couldn't be done the other way so the speaker is tuned for the room? Just curious if it works that way. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted April 2, 2006 Author Share Posted April 2, 2006 OK Al. I've done this. My software right now won't let me SUM them. I will try to get this together. Chops. Yes I could do that. However, I may put the speakers somewhere else later. The graph below will be from a listening position. The speaker is two feet from the wall. May be like this at the lakehouse. I have rested with a -6.7dB attenuation on the squawker. The tweeter CT125 isn't as hot s the K77 which you can see here. However, I somewhat like this for the setup I'm using this for. This speaker won't be playing great recordings. Guests will probably bring over cheesy CD's to listen at the lakehouse. It will play alot of Sirius digital radio too. Remember, ignore the "in between Bars" after 60Hz. This is for time saving purposes. Al, I think there is some holes in my Squawker-tweeter transition. Still sounds good though. Lot of voices/midrange coming from the woofer as you would expect with the ESN700t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted April 2, 2006 Author Share Posted April 2, 2006 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted April 2, 2006 Author Share Posted April 2, 2006 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 JW, Your sofware doesn't need to do an suming. The sumation depends on the port dimensions anyhow. Just make two curves and sum them manually later. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 Well. I did the curves last night. The software has the feature to sum but I got an error message. If I can't get it to work, then I'll do it manually. Now I've never done thr RTA right at the driver. Now since I put the mic in the port...should I double the ports values since there are two ports? jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 LOL on the addition of teeth for your avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 JC, Those things look like they could roll around the room and vacuum or something. [] They need some arms. [] Just kidding. It's really impressive all the math and science you have into those, and how quickly you did all that. So, how do they sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Can we put aside the graphs and such for a bit? How do they sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Jc, You DON'T want to use the software to sum the two plots. The result is NOT the direct sum of the two. It requires an adjustment depending on the port dimensions. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 Sorry I didn't mention the sound. Yes they sound good. The bass sounds right if you know what I mean w/o a long subjective information. I played many tunes with the K55 attenuated just like a Cornwall. This make sense as the woofer is somewhere around 98 dB. The Altec 811b is a good horn. It is better than the K600 and the K700 (last I heard of them). This shouldn't be any surprise really. It sounds like a 511b pretty much. Remember, my goal was to make a TallCorn...not another Cornscala. The mid crossing at 700Hz. The big midhorns for lower crossover points are too wide and can't work for this project (unless I went with the New Cornscala horn Bob is using....it will fit in my cabinet if i want to try that later). So...sounds like an awesome Cornwall really....bass is lower due to the way it is tuned right now...bass bin slightly more volume too. With the Extreme Slope network and the third order tweeter filter, this speaker can go ridiculously loud w/o "audible" distortion. This should be great for the application it's for. I really don't listen to stuff that loud at home. One thing of note. At a crossing of 700Hz for the woofer, there is a midrange coming from the CW1526. This driver can play voices well. It made it a little tougher to attenuate the K55 to make them blend well. Didn't notice this before when crossing the K33 lower. So in summary...better than the Cornwall. Great speaker so far. I need to mess with the tuning a little more just to convince myself that what I have is the best way to go. This will take time. I really wasn't looking for Cornwall Bass necessarily with this project. I wanted to go a little lower. I think I know real well what the Cornwall bass sounds like so far as I have mimicked it two time before on the dbb's and the Cornscalas I have. The tweeter is Bob's. The last time I tested it before Bob released it to everyone, I thought it was very similar to the K77. This is on the same 3rd order tweeter filter as before. However, this time, my opinion has changed a bit. Yes it is More "laid back" like others have said. This could just be from the slightly lower dB that it has. Not sure at this point. I can see how a few might find this unappealing at first. It is a different sound. I think as time goes on..and people have spent ADEQUATE /lengthy listening test, there will a solid way that everyone will agree to explaining the differences between them. The CT125 is accurate, detailed and all that stuff. It is definately "not in your face" like the K77 can at times. So far I am pleased and will stick with it. To be honest...and saying what I have said before many times, you get what you pay for. It is a $150/pair tweeter. The JBL2404's in my dbb's are expensive and sound that way. They would be too tall for this speaker adding another 5-6 inches to allow enough room to prevent the top portion of the cabinent from interfering with its sound. I can't do the side by side configuration with the midhorn and tweet due to too much width. This cabinet is only 19 1/2 inches wide total. Height is 50 inches almost as tall as a Khorn. This cabinet is an easy build. You wouldn't have to spend as much if you went with a first order network which would work fine. The other competitive option would be a Cornwall with Al's new Trachorn 600. This would be a good competitor for about the same price as a used Cornwall with expense of a new horn. But, doesn't have the WAF like the TallCorn. Cost wood/build ~ $150 woofers $200 tweeters $150 Altec 811b and adapters $100 (thanks Sean Fogg) Mint K55v's $200 (thanks BSButton) Precision ports $52 (regular ones would be less than $10) Bass bin terminals $5 Therefore $820 w/o network and expensive ports and paint/veneer job Definately worth the build for the DIY crowd. Yes I'm a big Klipsch fan but there are always areas that can be improved upon IMOO. Plus there is the thrill of making this happen from scratch. I still have more projects on my plate. More complicated than what I have done before. This build is an easy one for those who want to try this kinda stuff for the first time. No weird angles and no shelf ports to build. All of my projects so far have a seperate top cabinet for ease of testing and abilty to change out the top horns and networks. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 JC, Those things look like they could roll around the room and vacuum or something. [] They need some arms. [] Just kidding. It's really impressive all the math and science you have into those, and how quickly you did all that. So, how do they sound? Thats a good one. Will look way more appealing once I make the custom grills. Those Precision Ports make a statement. Like "Black Holes" in space that suck things in. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 Jc, You DON'T want to use the software to sum the two plots. The result is NOT the direct sum of the two. It requires an adjustment depending on the port dimensions. Al K. Al. I am lost with that concept. If I post the two graphs, can you make sense of it? jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 jwcullison - You wrote: "This cabinet is only 19 1/2 inches wide total. Height is 50 inches almost as tall as a Khorn." What is the depth? And.... is there any purpose to the riser between horn section & bass bin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 jwcullison - You wrote: "This cabinet is only 19 1/2 inches wide total. Height is 50 inches almost as tall as a Khorn." What is the depth? And.... is there any purpose to the riser between horn section & bass bin? 22 inch depth total. The top cabinet w/o the riser looks funny. Tried this before w/o the riser and it is unsatisfiying. This shape will nestle in a corner well. My dbb's are the best at that. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 JC, So back to the title of this thread. Does she think they look better than original corns or your other projects? No offense, but maybe if I saw them with the grills on first I would think the ladies might like them more. They are really tall. Don't get me wrong. For me, you couldn't make them big enough. And I like the look of the big horn. But I was just wondering if the end result pleased her like you thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 I didn't take it to offense. My wife is more excited about these than any I've built. She askes me about them daily. We here have a mindset About the Klpsch Heritage line. We think they are so beautiful and I am with that as well. When I have guests over, I know they women are withholding much compliments because they look like big tanks in my house. However, a much noticed compliment with there sound though. The whole WAF concept is typically around sleek speakers or tall and narrow. I actually heard a guy give a talk on this at a McIntosh demonstration. Now it would be hard to do that (WAF) with some of the high quality drivers and horns that we love so much. My wife thought my my late Cornwalls were disgusting until I painted them black. Forum members here became nauseated with this. Her request again was to build a jammin pair of speakers that aren't wide/fat. Yes they are tall. I've seen plenty other high end modern speakers that are this tall. These speakers will go well in the lake house beside a cetain peice of furniture on two sides of a fireplace.. So far...she is happy. I just don't think I will have them done in two weeks. I'm trying to find a guy to paint them for me as I completely hate that part. I don't think she like my Cornscalas as much which are the shape of a la scala. She like the dbb's alot. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Can you take the speakers outside to measure them? How bout putting them in the face of a doorway firing out? It looks to me like you've got them ported too low...the Q of that lower peak looks way too much like a port's response and not that of a room effect. One think sfogg suggested to me was to connect a wire in parallel with the speaker itself and then measure the frequency response as if it were a microphone. Apparently the high input impedance of your sound card will keep the current flow through your sound card low enough to not cause damage. But doing this will give you a very accurate depection of the frequency response of the system (the effect of the port loading will show up on the electrical response). When taking mesurements like this it is always best to place the microphone on the ground and then tilt the speaker forward to point down at it. It gets rid of yet one more system of reflections that might skew the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.