What is the best tweeter?

[DimaK]

If i want to go for the best tweeter available (reasonable prices please) to replace my lasala's alnicos (type a xover) - what would it be?

i mean, i'm prepared to spend twice as much to get JBL 2404 instead of "try and error" with eminance, BEC, beyma etc.

and i don't care that it will sit on top of the speaker.

is it an ultimate tweeter for LS?

[mark1101]

The best tweeter is the one that sounds best to YOU.

Are your networks up to spec? If your network caps are old then your tweeter output may be lower than spec. This is a common issue causing many to believe they have a tweeter problem.

The tweeters you have are actually good sounding tweeters. So are the A networks when rebuilt to spec.

I have had the K77 alnico, the K77M, and the BEC in my LaScalas. They are all a little different, but each is very good, IMHO.

Most folks here have the networks rebuilt and the tweeter almost always comes back nicely.

[Daddy Dee]

Welcome to the forum.

You are asking quite a subjective question. What you mention as

possibilities are all viable and options to which many people enjoy.

First question would be: How long have you been listening to LaScala

with the K77. If your LS are a new acquisition, I'd suggest to stick

with the K77 for a season to know the base line factory sound.

Second question: What is the age of your LS. If they are twenty or more

years old, the crosovers will need to be recapped. IMO, one would be

wasting time and resources to address any other changes before this.

The newest option of K77 replacements is the BEC tweeter. It is a

bargain and a true drop in replacement. The vast majority of Klipsch

forum members reporting their impressions of this tweeter are

favorable. However, the people who don't like it... really don't like

it. A few folks are lukewarm.

The second place winner, IMO, in the bang for the buck category is the

Beyma. It will require sitting stop your cabs and will need to be

attenuated to match the other driver output. Al K makes a nice little

attenuator board for $80 for the pair. That would put the price of this

upgrade at $380 USD, before shipping. Don't know what they would run

for delivery in the UK.

There are plenty of other options which are more costly than this, but

IMO, the cost benefit for LS is being pushed already at this point.

[DRBILL]

I have new BEC Type A/AA crossovers and the BEC tweeters in my K-Horns. My only complaint is that the new tweeters reproduce what is on the CD! Good CDs sound grand. Average to bad CDs sound awful. About 25% of my collection goes back to the very first CDs that were released. They weren't good then, and age hasn't improved them. I'm giving some thought to a switch that will let me toggle between the stock tweeters (K-77s which are very forgiving) and the BECs.

I have tried fooling with the treble controls but they paint with too broad a brush.

DRBILL

[DimaK]

guys,

thanks a lot for your responces so far. i really appreciate it.

your the only help i can get as no body here have no expririence whatsoever with those beasts []

i have no idea how old they are but the owner said they supposed to be 1977's.

networks not recaped - i will get new caps shortly.

i have a good equipment and my current speakers are Audio Physic Virgo III which have very extended treble.

i have LS for about 6 months now and i hear for sure that a lot of treble is missing. not that stops me from enjoy and having fun - but i would like to correct this as i understand that it's perfectly possible.

The best tweeter is the one that sounds best to YOU.

i know this, no problem.

assistance i'm asking is to get your opinions based on expirience you had.

specifically regarding JBL - i have a vintage fan friend and he pumping me that for 104-105 db the 2404 is the best one, nothing can really be better to it, "you can't not to like them" and "you can't go wrong".

the downside is 2404's price - but i'm really prepared to put 300$ if it's really the case.

your opinions please?

BTW - i thought that beyma is 150$ A PAIR - was i wrong?

[formica]

i have a vintage fan friend and he pumping me that

for 104-105 db the 2404 is the best one, nothing can really be better

to it, "you can't not to like them" and "you can't go wrong".

the downside is 2404's price - but i'm really prepared to put 300$ if it's really the case.

From a Klipsch fan, I think it's sound advice... The JBL will

sound better than the others you listed. But putting a dollar

value on quality is quite difficult. We each have our own

breaking point.... so it's hard to say whether the improved sound

quality of the JBL is worth the addition cost versus the Beyma for

you.

I see some guys invest thousands for less audible tweaks ... so it's not that absurd.

To get the most of the 2404H would require a crossover modification.

ROb

[mark1101]

DimaK,

I have 1977 LaScala as you do. I can promise you that probably 95% of your problem is your networks.

I don't recommend any tweeter over another, just that you get your networks restored to original Klipsch spec FIRST to understand the true factory sound from 1977.

You really can't just replace the caps. The stock caps are not readily available.

Forum member BEC can provide them. You should contact BEC.

There are other network specialistics on the forum here as well and they specialize in different types of upgraded networks, not stock.

Good luck, the sound will come.

[DimaK]

I'll contact Bob for the replacement caps.

I can promise you that probably 95% of your problem is your networks.

i'm really surprised to hear this as BEC always say that those alnico tweeters not go these days higher than 13KHz.

how come new tweeter than goes all the way to 20K won't make a difference?

The JBL will sound better than the others you listed. ...

so it's hard to say whether the improved sound quality of the JBL is worth the addition cost versus the Beyma for you.

....

To get the most of the 2404H would require a crossover modification.

doesn't JBL and Beyma costs the same? 300$ a pair?

i was considering actually JBL over BEC's.

if my reason is "just go for the best available" - will 2404 be the correct choice?

and what xover modes are required for 2404?

Does Beyma also require those modes?

thanks again for the help []

[TubeGuy]

The Beymas are $300. p/pr U.S. Being in the UK, you may be able to get better pricing. I would think shipping and duties would make it less expensive since the Beymas are made in Spain.

This is not an endorsement. I happen to like the k77, ct125 and the beyma. I haven't heard the 2404h.

[mark1101]

As far as the tweeter frequency response goes, measurements don't lie.

However, you have to go by your ears because they all sound a little different, and I would bet that the one that sounds best to YOU won't be the one with the best specs necessarily. (almost always the case in audio)

The frequecy response differences are overrated when it comes to listening. I have the different Klipsch tweeters and the CT125, and the difference in measurements doesn't support the differences in sound as you would think. There are also tonal differences that can't be accounted for by measurements, and that play a large part in the "matching" to the Klipsch speaker systems, and in overall satisfaction.

A proper operating K-77 alnico tweeter is still a very good tweeter for Klipsch Heritage systems. When you change it you'll find out how good a match it really was to the Klipsch system.

Your issue is that it sounds like you don't have the variety to sample, so you are at a disadvantage to decide which is best for you.

In that case the CT125 is a bargain at BEC pricing, and worth the experiment. Once you get your networks rebuilt, if you still aren't satisfied why not just try a pair of CT125s?

But those networks.....

I hope this helps.[]

[ZAKO]

Dimak........JBL has announced...Stopping production on 2404 & 2405 & 2402 tweeters. Whats on the supply shelf will not be repaced. If you want a new one get it now. Or find a used one & buy new diaphrams. Or get a TAD 703 at 4 times the price.

[cjgeraci]

What people are alluding to with respect to "what sounds best to you" also has something to do with speaker synergy.

Are you happy with the performance from your stock squawker horns (K400 or K401s)? If so, you might want to try a pair of BEC tweeters first instead of going straight to the JBL's.

The only reason I bring this up is because the Beyma, JBLs and Bob's tweeters sound very different from each other. And you want harmony between your tweeter and your midrange, sound-wise. The BEC tweeter is a nice match for Klipsch midrange drivers (even with Trachorns), but I think the Beyma would be a little too laid back as compared to the Klipsch midrange driver.

Some who have gone to JBL 2404s for tweeters have also gone to JBLs (or other brand drivers) for the squawker. So the JBL might be the "best" tweeter out of the three, but will it sound very different from your Klipsch squawker? I don't know because I have not tried the combo. On the other hand, if you intend on going with a JBL mid-driver (or changing out the squawker to an Altec) then maybe a 2404 is the route to go.

Don't get me wrong - the JBL 2404 is highly regarded. But how does it match up with your squawker? Instead of asking "best," I would ask members how the 2404 matches with the K55. If people liked the match, I say go for it....

Carl.

[m8o]

i mean, i'm prepared to spend twice as much to get JBL 2404 instead of "try and error" with eminance, BEC, beyma etc.

Is the JBL 2404 a 'good' match for la Scalas given its 100deg X 100deg dispersion pattern though? Isn't that too narrow for matching the mid-horn?

[3dzapper]

The dispersion on the JBL is actually greater than the K-77. If you opt fot the JBLs, you won't look back. No more Tzzz, Tzzz, Tzzz just great clear highs. They do need to be attenuated a couple of DBs for a perfect match.

Rick

[ZAKO]

High frequencies tend to beam any way. 2404 smooths this out. looking at the polar plot, the 2404 narrows to 90 degrees at 20k.

[formica]

The JBL will sound better than the others you listed. ...

so it's hard to say whether the improved sound quality of the JBL is worth the addition cost versus the Beyma for you.

....

To get the most of the 2404H would require a crossover modification.

doesn't JBL and Beyma costs the same? 300$ a pair?

As far as i know the JBL are about 500$US a pair. As mentioned the Beyma's should be less than 300$US in europe.

i was considering actually JBL over BEC's.

The JBL's are significantly more than the 150$ Bob is charging...

so this is a good example of how much you are willing the spend.

if my reason is "just go for the best available" - will 2404 be the correct choice?

In my opinion they would be, but like some others mentioned, there are some pricier TAD drivers that people swear by.

and what xover modes are required for 2404?

Does Beyma also require those modes?

I'm not a x-over guru but I believe both benefit from a crossover tweak. Check out John W. xover mod for the JBL...

http://home.comcast.net/~wooferboy/The_Audio_Engineering_League.html

Al K. uses the Beyma... and I seem to remember some info on his website before

it's last update. Perhaps you could check with him...

http://www.alkeng.com/klipsch.html

ROb

[Deang]

If you do a search through the 'High Efficiency" section (archives) over at www.audioasylum.com you will find a couple who after comparing both the Beyma and the JBL head on -- chose the Beyma. I like the sound of thing, but it does steal away much of the classic Klipsch sound, which is strongly tied to the phenolic diaphragms. The Beyma also doesn't do very well crossed over much lower than 9kHz using a first order filter -- where it definitely sounds dry and lifeless. The Beyma is best served with tweeter filters using steeper slopes or crossed higher.

BEC's modified APT-50 sounds better than the K-77 to me with my Type A's -- and goes about its business of bringing improvement without changing the character of these speakers. I believe that would have been Bob's goal -- and he succeeded.

[formica]

Al K. uses the Beyma... and I seem to remember some info on his website

Dean... i fogot that you too had the beyma... [:$]

.... and would be a good source of info on the x-over mods to

DimaK as well.

[Q-Man]

Dimak........JBL has announced...Stopping production on 2404 & 2405 & 2402 tweeters. Whats on the supply shelf will not be repaced. If you want a new one get it now. Or find a used one & buy new diaphrams. Or get a TAD 703 at 4 times the price.

Darn, I need 3 more 2404H tweeters. I better order them now.

[m8o]

If I were to make a move, I'm leaning towards the BEC myself... though if you believe in the psycho-acoustic benefits an extended frequency range that supre-tweeters brings you how about keeping the stock Klipsch tweeter and supplament it with one of these fostex super tweeters up top crossed over @ say15KHz or so with a 1st order network (to ensure flat phase between the two tweeters)...?

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?pid=349

or the big guns...

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?keywords=horn

....then scroll to the bottom of the page.

edit: Woa... purrty:

http://www.visaton.com/english/artikel/art_410_1_7.html

but man, are they beamy. I thought they'd be directional but I didn't think that bad ; down about 12db @ 45degrees off axis. I wonder why no manufacturer uses a lens on the supertweeters to widen the dispersion... Haven't found a price on them yet.