OT: Grading, dirt, and landscaping

[damonrpayne]

I have a new house and the rough grade of my yard is already perfect. It is your typical suburban 1/4 acre lot in a planned development. Is it just me, or does having some topsoil hauled in and scraped around cost about five times more than any reasonable person would expect such a thing to cost?

[johnyholiday]

Lol, sounds like that high speed dirt ,you need huge mossy rock$$$$, an $5k, 200 year old olive tree's,too

[customsteve01]

If the grade on your yard is the way you want it the best bet is to has a load hauled in and dumpped in your driveway. Then get a wheel barrow and move it to where you want it and spead it out with a rake. I know it is back braking work but it will save you a boat load. Top soil around where I live is about $200.00 a dump truck load.

And you wanted to own your own home. Oh, the joy of ownership and all the work to get it the way you want it.

Steve

[colterphoto1]

The problem happened a year ago. The developer may have scraped some topsoil off before they even began the addition or your lot.

Then when they dug the hole for your basement, instead of scraping off the topsoil ALREADY THERE ON THE LAND, they just piled it all up with the clay. Not only that , but they COVERED OTHER TOPSOIL around the house in the process, virtualy guaranteeing that any existing topsoil became buried and you would have clay or silt subsoil on top to grow a lawn in.

Now the good part, if they did remove your topsoil, they're now going to sell it back to you and make a huge profit. But if you don't do it now, you'll have a terrible lawn forever unless you import sod.

Some recommendations to better the bad situation. Have the rough soil box graded to fill in low spots so you'll have even water runoff and layer of topsoil later. Try to score the soil or till it somewhat rough so there isn't a layer of 'hard pan' under the top soil. Grass roots need to dig deep to be healthy and if they hit that solid concrete like layer, they'll stop growing.

Be very careful when you select grass seeds to get one with less weed seed. You might want to check with your county extension agent or local Master Gardener club for further recommendations for your area and climate.

Good luck Damon,

Michael

[dtel]

We have all the work we can handle { landscaping } because we give fair prices. We do beds,trees,plants,irrigation, only grade and fill when we must.

To bad you don't live close i could spread it for free , now i can't make dirt you would have to buy that. Around here it's under $150 for 21 yards.

[Tom Adams]

I guess this is a stupid question but...........did the builder not do a final grading and provide some landscaping?? If that's the case.....wow......it's amazing the difference in various regions of the country. Here where I live, even the housing developments that have homes in the $120K range all provide some shrubs and sod the front portion of the lot. Anyhow......

One bit of advice I'll pass along after having done yards on 5 homes (and I suspect dtel would back me up on this), if you can afford it, sod your yard. Yes - I know it's expensive. However, there's been several studies done that show that for a person to bring a yard in from seed, to the level of turf that sod is, you'll spend 5 times more per square foot than what sod costs. And that's assuming all of the seed that is spread will germanate and not be lost due to being washed away or blown away or eaten by birds.

My present house consumed over 16,000 square feet of sod. Fortunately, I didn't have to lay it this time. Not sure about your neck 'o the woods, but here a pallet (550 sq. ft.) of centipede goes for $150 laid. LOL.....one of the homes I owned many years ago had a rather small yard so I laid premium bermuda sod - you know, like the stuff on golf greens. A friend of mine was a turf manager and gave me some tips on this type of grass. During the peak growing season, I was cutting the grass every 3 days in order to force it to become short and dense. And the fertilizer/watering schedule made it look just like a golf green. My neighbors would ask me when I was putting in a cup and a flag!! LOL.....

Yards are nice, but man can they ever drain a wallet.

Tom

[billyjoe72]

Ditto

[joessportster]

i feel your pain, i recently bought my home also it was an existing house bought more for investment than a permanent home.(was tired of throwing 1000 a month into a rental) so now i commute 85 miles each way to work. anyway back to grass. the previous ouners cut out a 10 foot by 40 foot section of the front/side yard to create a gravel aera for excess parking, they put up a paver wall type block 3 high to contain the remaining 5 feet of yard, they also planted 2 sycamore trees that were now in excess of 40 feet tall and tearing up the grass and the sidewalks and headed for the basement wall. i had to pay 1200.00 to have the 2 trees removed and the stumps ground, i am doing all the labor myself to remove the wall(bonus is i get to reuse the blocks, at near 3.00 each that saves near 300), im taking all the conrete chunks and other debris to help fill the aera removed but figure i will need at least 3 loads of fill, then the fun starts i have to get a tiller and till the whole yard front and back, and side as the yard is covered with crab grass and some type of small purple flower.

maybe some of you more knowledgeable guys can tell me would i be able to sod over this after tilling without worrying about the crabgrass and flowers from comming back thru?

i also have the joy of an ivy planted near the house and garage i have to figure out how to kill off(tip-o-the-day) round-up wont kill ivy!!!!!!!!!

Joe

[oldbuckster]

Sod ,Sod ,Sod the only way to go for instant lawn. You Must water after you install it, you can't cheap out on the water, do it right, do it once, and enjoy your lawn until it's time to mow. Dirt and topsoil are cheap, it's the trucking that kills you.

[jacksonbart]

I give it a solid B+. Nice job.

[Jay481985]

I remember the cheapest place to get good quality topsoil was at the local dump if you have one. Helping a friend who lived inone of the most expensive zipcodes in all of america, we threw out alot of stuff in which she said to just bring the car to the local dump. Well over there they do a decent job of sorting the newspaper, furniture, glass, bottles, and even rottable things. The rottable things go into one big heap and it turns out to be quite good topsoil. The thing is you have to haul it yourself.... But its cheaper than buying it cause it is free to a good home

[colterphoto1]

Joe, depending on where you are, you might not want to put down sod until cooler weather hits.

If I had to do it, I'd do this- take out all the debris, rough up soil, add new topsoil and spread evenly, rough it up again. Let it sit for a few weeks until the first batch of any weed seeds erupt. Roundup the whole thing. Maybe do that again. What you're doing is getting rid of those first nasty rounds of weed seeds. Then let soil rest a bit, relevel to fill in low spots (box grade) and then do the sod or grass seed.

Yes, you learn to hate the previous owners of your home. Happens most every time.

I'm on a lot with negative slope back toward the house- Should have been built about two blocks higher. There's a swale to redirect surface water but in entirely encircles 3/4 of the home- almost like a friggin MOAT in rainy season. So during early spring the yard is like a marsh (but it never gets dry either- something to be said for ground water)

Michael

[Marvel]

I have very little grass in my yard. High water table, which has wrong pH for grass. The yard is mostly moss, which is fine with me. It's green, it's soft, it's short. The previous owner treated the yard, seeded it and then mowed all summer. Seemed pretty stupid to us.

Bruce

[dtel's wife]

Finally, a thread about my favorite subject, landscaping. I love my job. As most of you know dtel and I own a landscaping company and we do all the work ourselves. No helpers. We primarily landscape custom built homes.

Most contractors building custom houses in our area do not include sod or landscaping.

If the rough grade is satisfactory, consider the above mentioned wheelbarrow technique. If wheelbarrowing is not a preferred option consider hiring someone with a small tractor has a front end loader to put riversand/topsoil and spread.

Riversand is perfect for grass. It allows the roots of the grass to spread easily. Riversand is also loaded with minerals. Generally speaking, topsoil is "loaded" with weed seeds. "Topsoil" is literally scraped from the top of the ground.

Sod is always better than seed when it comes to grass. Make sure the sod you purchase is healthy and relatively weed free.(25% or less weed content)

If you have not already done so, consider having an irrigation system installed. If you can afford an irrigation system now is the time to do it.

Be careful. A lot of landscapers base thier price on the neighborhood you live in. If you want some additional pointers feel free to send an us an email.

[Clarence]

who here knew that female rottweiler pee will burn up grass, but male wont?

My back yard is for chit......

damn rottweilers.

[Tom Adams]

Concerning putting sod down over existing grass/weeds/whatever......I have to politely disagree with Mr. Colter. Due to rampant fungus and molecricket damge we had to have a good portion of our yard re-sodded. The folks that did the work took a commercial mower and scalped the yard. Then, they did what dtel said and spread riversand and then hand raked to smooth out the grade. After that, the sod went down. Like dtel said, most turf love sand. In fact, if you have a bare spot, go get a few bags of sandbox play sand from Home Depot and spread a .50" layer over the bare spot. In no time, the grass will grow over the sanded areas. As dtel pointed out, sand is also very permeable and in soil analysis terms, it has a very high perculation rate. Which means it drains very fast. It's why golf greens and ball fields have a substantial layer of sand beneath them. Essentially what happenes it that the turf's roots "chase" after the water. And since the water moves away and deep, so do the roots. Which is a good thing because in times of draught, turf with deeper roots will be able to survive better than turf with a shallow root system. Boy - aren't you glad you asked now??? LOL....[]

Now.....why is it not critical to kill the weeds before the sod goes down? Because any turf expert will tell you the best method of controlling weeds is to have a healthy thick turf for it will choke out weeds. Which means less reliance on weed control chemicals.

Lastly, I too would vote for the installation of an irrigation system. Now, you could hire someone, but if you can glue two pieces of PVC together, you can do it yourself for much cheaper. First, consult with Toro or Hunter (my preference is Hunter) and they will help you layout your yard as far as what types of heads should go where based on your landscaping plan. Also, if you can calculate what your water flow rate is, they will be able to calculate throw distances and orifice sizes for the spray heads. To calculate the flow rate, take a 5 or 10 gallon pale, turn on an outside faucet wide open, shoved the pale under it and start timing. When your watch gets to one minute, pull the bucket away. If the bucket contains 3 gallons, then the flow rate is 3 gallons/minute or 180 gallons/hour. BTW, not only will some companies tell you which heads and orifice sizes, but they also suggest the number of zones, the valves, and the total linear feet of PVC pipe. Oh, and don't use schedule 40 PVC - it's not necessary. PR200 or PR220 (pressure rated to 200psi or 220psi) PVC is prefectly acceptable.

Next, don't even consider hand trenching unless your yard is 1000 square feet or less. Spend a few bucks and rent a self-propelled trencher from your local rental place. Then, trench the yard per the suggested layout and start gluing. You'll be shocked at how fast it goes. Install your electrically operated valves (all good irrigation systems have to have a timer), run your wires, tap into your house water supply line, select RUN on the the timer, and "thar she blows"!

And why an irrigation system?? Well, because it's cool. Seriously, not only is it easier to water a lawn, but you put down the right amount of water exactly where it should go - i.e. you water lawn and not sidewalks and driveways. Gone are the miles of hoses and having to constantly remember to move sprinklers every so many minutes. In my yard, I'm running 9 zones and have 110 spray heads!

Tom

[colterphoto1]

Tom, my Roundup advise was given with the idea of Damon seeding his lawn. I believe you began giving the advice toward sod installation. I agree with you that the best weed preventative is a thick, healthy turf. However while that is immediately available with your advice to install sod, it's a little trickier when spreading seed.

New grass from seed is very fragile for the first season and wont' tolerate many chemicals. That is why I suggested killing off any first growth weeds prior to seeding the area. Stirring up the soil with the building process and importing topsoil from possibly numerous sources could also import any number of very nasty weed seeds.

I don't know what Damon's budget is and agree that laying sod would give the best results, both immediate and long-term, they might be more than the budget can withstand. I would also caution to get sod or seed of a type grown for your area and your micro-climate (shade or sun).

Michael

[dtel's wife]

Excuse me Tom, it was I who gave that last bit of advice.

It is not critical to kill the weeds before the sand/sod goes down.

However, depending on the type of weeds you may have remaining after your final grade, it may be recommended. Weeds such as Johnson Grass are extremely hard to control, even when smothered. Round Up Quick Dry is a very good product for weed control.

If I recall correctly, it contains 71% glyophosphate, the active ingredient in most weed killers. It is a dry powder, available in individual packs, which make one gallon of spray. Or you can purchase a box with five packs/five gallons for approximaely $15.00. As with all weed killers, the weeds should be actively growing (not in a drought).

You could contact the nearest Ewing Irrigation Supply Store, they also offer the services Tom mentioned. Be careful, some of the "pop up" Hunter heads have been experiencing a problem with weak springs. Also, according to our local Ewing dealer some of the Hunter control boxes have been experiencing "fog-out" with the LED displays(both indoor and outdoor controls)

I am not a big fan of Rainbird products, but we recently switched to Rainbird control boxes and Rainbird pop-ups. We still use Hunter solenoids and rotor sprinker heads.

Whether you install your own system, or have it professionally installed, make sure you purchase a control box that is "automatic".

If I recall correctly you said your lot is 1/4 acre. Roughly speaking, very roughly speaking...45-50lbs of pressure, with a one inch main, nine zones...wholesale cost for all materials should be roughly $1000.00 plus or minus.

Actually, the pipe Tom mentions is better for irrigation systems, the water flow is better with the above mentioned pipe.

Irrigation systems are "way cool" as my five year old grandson would say. Not to mention, the grass and plants are much happier when they are given good soil, water, and little fertilizer.