tigerwoodKhorns Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 "I know and I am probably making big a mistake. I met some people here in town who are into vinyl and I was thinking about going in that direction for a while. I also kind of wanted a remote and that isn't realy an option with tubes. I need a remote because I listen to music and work at home and it is nice to be able to turn it down when I have to think. So now I am thinking that the Peach should go. Here is the problem. I just got a box of CD's from eBay and I am listening to Pink Floyd's "The Wall" Man, everything is just right! They did a great job recording this and it really shows through on the Peach and big QSC with the B&W's. This is tough!" As Mark and many know, I almost pulled the trigger and added a Blueberry to the mix - just because of vinyl. What I ended up doing was just adding a nice phono stage - from a nice vintage receiver - and now my vinyl also runs through the Peach. I really did not want to get rid of the superloz mode anyway, even for vinyl. As for the remote, your mind can always take a break - then you can get up and turn it down - as you throw away (or use) the dicta and the rest of the extraneous bs. But, I also can understand the "itch." Whatever you end up with, may your journey to your next piece of gear - be a pleasant one. Carl. Carl, Fortunately, no dicta here and not too much BS. I'm in house and transactional. Anyway, what did you use for the Phono stage? I have a Dyna SCA 35 in mint condition that I can modify if needed. I'm now listening to Dire Straights Brothers in Arms and I though these speakers were good before, they are really just awesome with the Peach (and very similar to my tri-amped K Horns - says an aweful lot for Heritage speakers). I'm on the fence. I have always loved this preamp. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I also kind of wanted a remote and that isn't realy an option with tubes. I need a remote because I listen to music and work at home and it is nice to be able to turn it down when I have to think. Through most of my childhood, my parents did not have remote control garage door openers. When my mother came home, she'd honk the horn, and I'd run downstairs and open the door for her. I was her remote control. I never minded doing it, it was nothing compared to all that she gave to me. I don't know if you have any kids, but if you do, I think you could train one of them to run into the room when called for, and adjust the volume control for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 I also kind of wanted a remote and that isn't realy an option with tubes. I need a remote because I listen to music and work at home and it is nice to be able to turn it down when I have to think. Through most of my childhood, my parents did not have remote control garage door openers. When my mother came home, she'd honk the horn, and I'd run downstairs and open the door for her. I was her remote control. I never minded doing it, it was nothing compared to all that she gave to me. I don't know if you have any kids, but if you do, I think you could train one of them to run into the room when called for, and adjust the volume control for you. My wife has 2 shih tzu's, can they do it? We got our first remote control in 1984 when we got cable. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 You can get good sound without it -- but it sounds less like music and more like you're listening to speakers. The soundstage collapses, and everything is two dimensional. You lose a lot of richness to the sound too, and everything sounds forced. I lasted a week, and then ordered another one. Upgrade the QSC to something a bit more refined, and use the low Z mode. The QSC is fantastic at the price point, but if you're willing to go into the $2500 neighborhood -- well, more serious territory there -- and you do typically get what you pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 You can get good sound without it -- but it sounds less like music and more like you're listening to speakers. The soundstage collapses, and everything is two dimensional. You lose a lot of richness to the sound too, and everything sounds forced. I lasted a week, and then ordered another one. Upgrade the QSC to something a bit more refined, and use the low Z mode. The QSC is fantastic at the price point, but if you're willing to go into the $2500 neighborhood -- well, more serious territory there -- and you do typically get what you pay for. I'm not sure what you are referring to in the first part. What did you order? As far as the QSC, I'm sticking with it. I just sent the PLX3002 back and upgraded to the PLX3402. These B&W speakers use so much power so quickly that to get an adequate amount of "audiophile" power to drive these speakers (~400+ watts) I would have to spend an enormous amount of money, much more than $2500. Have you priced high powered Krell, Levinson or Bryston amps lately? I just don't see it for a pair of speakers that I bought on an impulse (and do not regret at all). Not trying to argue, but I'm not sure if you really do get what you pay for. In my experience, there is so much hype and BS that it is difficult to know if a lot of upgrades are really upgrades. I think that all of the equipment that I own really performs beyond the purchase price (AH!, Benchmark, Peach, QSC PLX, Klipsch heritage). Maybe I will eat these words. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 I think that all of the equipment that I own really performs beyond the purchase price (AH!, Benchmark, Peach, QSC PLX, Klipsch heritage). Maybe I will eat these words. Chris I very much doubt you will have to eat any words with "bang for buck" equipment like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 You had said, "What kind of SS gear would it take to get in this ballpark? I am figuring about $2500 to $3,000 to equal this." -- I thought you meant for something to replace the QSC to run with the Peach. If you meant to replace the setup -- forget it, you can't do it. "I'm not sure what you are referring to in the first part. What did you order?" IOW's, I sold my Peach, and then after a little more than a week I bought another Peach from Mark. When you first get a Peach you realize how great it is, then after a while something else sounds enticing, then after you try it, and you realize how great the Peach is -- but you don't have one anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 You had said, "What kind of SS gear would it take to get in this ballpark? I am figuring about $2500 to $3,000 to equal this." -- I thought you meant for something to replace the QSC to run with the Peach. If you meant to replace the setup -- forget it, you can't do it. "I'm not sure what you are referring to in the first part. What did you order?" IOW's, I sold my Peach, and then after a little more than a week I bought another Peach from Mark. When you first get a Peach you realize how great it is, then after a while something else sounds enticing, then after you try it, and you realize how great the Peach is -- but you don't have one anymore. OK, it all makes sense now. I was asking at what pricepoint can an SS preamp replace the Peach. You sold yours and then ordered another one week later? That is quite an endorsement. What did you use to replace it with for the week? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago_Pete Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Chris you may want to rethink selling that unit. I posted my 3 month old Blueberry on eBay because I got a wild hair for something new, actually old, a C22. Got an offer for $1000 yesterday on the BB that I turned down only because I started listening to it again while my new/old C22 went to Mr. DeWick for a tune up. These JM units are really something special. Who says I cant have both? Uh, my wife but does that really matter? I'M glad it didn't sell. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 Chris you may want to rethink selling that unit. I posted my 3 month old Blueberry on eBay because I got a wild hair for something new, actually old, a C22. Got an offer for $1000 yesterday on the BB that I turned down only because I started listening to it again while my new/old C22 went to Mr. DeWick for a tune up. These JM units are really something special. Who says I cant have both? Uh, my wife but does that really matter? I'M glad it didn't sell. Pete Damm you!! Damm all of you!!![:@][:@] lol. Your probably right. I am really starting to regret sending back the pinched waist tube that I had. It was perfect but occasionally cut out. Turns out that it was driving a load that was too difficult and required the LoZ mode. I am itching to get the convience of an SS but this thing sounds so good this is difficult. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 It's not difficult at all. While there are better sounding preamps in the market, you will end up spending TRIPLE what you did for the JM. Then you should pray that there is a synergy between your amp and the new preamp, or you will be getting a new amp as well. Mark's preamps live at the top end of the "affordable" range while travelling in "can't afford" quality and performance circles. I have demo'd a handful of "can't afford" preamps and I'm very glad I can't afford them. Unless you can define precisely what improvements you want to make, and verify the new preamp will provide those improvements, you will be making two expensive mistakes, if not more. You have made a dramatic change in speakers, but you may consider a very high power Mac SS amp as a next fork in the road rather than jettisoning the JM. In terms of quality, production, and musicality, your pre stands larger than your amp if you are running the QSC. YMMV, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Ditto to all of the above. Keep it! I've never even seen or heard a JuicyMusic product in person yet, and from all the testimonials I've read here and abroad, it's very much thee de facto in its price range (and well above it too). If I'm understanding you, you need a remote and a phono stage...While a remote is convenient, it's not necessary (only my CD player is remote controlled, and the exercise does me good). And a decent phono preamp can be had for $500 (and less) and hooked up to the Peach (Mark, correct me if I'm wrong). You know how great your Peach sounds...just keep the damn thing and enjoy your music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 It's not difficult at all. While there are better sounding preamps in the market, you will end up spending TRIPLE what you did for the JM. Then you should pray that there is a synergy between your amp and the new preamp, or you will be getting a new amp as well. Mark's preamps live at the top end of the "affordable" range while travelling in "can't afford" quality and performance circles. I have demo'd a handful of "can't afford" preamps and I'm very glad I can't afford them. Unless you can define precisely what improvements you want to make, and verify the new preamp will provide those improvements, you will be making two expensive mistakes, if not more. You have made a dramatic change in speakers, but you may consider a very high power Mac SS amp as a next fork in the road rather than jettisoning the JM. In terms of quality, production, and musicality, your pre stands larger than your amp if you are running the QSC. YMMV, etc. I am not considering replacing the pre as an "upgrade" in performance, it is a convience thing. The QSC is a tough decision. To achieve the power levels that they put out (assuming that the specs are somewhat accurate) in an audiophile type amp just does not seem worth it. Just so everyone knows what we are talking about, the QSC PLX 3002, at 550 wpc (measured from 20 to 20K at very low thd) can be driven to clipping at a volume level that fills the room loudly, but not so loud that I cannot listen. These speakers require huge power. I spoke to someone local today who is going to try to contact somone here in town who has a Krell and a Levinson amp "just lying around." He has an enormous amount of equipment. We are going to see if he would like to come over. This is the best deal that I can get as trying these amps will verify all. Just out of curiosity, what high end preamps did you try out? I'm sure they are all out of my price range. Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 Pete--- Interesting comments there. I'd sure like to know how you think the BlueBerry compares to your reworked C-22 when it comes back. I remember your initial comments when you first got the BlueBerry and so I was a bit surprised to see you selling it so soon. As I said, I'll be real interested when you compare it to a C-22. md Mark, You need these testimonials on your website. Could there be any higher praise? I was reading the 6 moons review again last night, also very impressive. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 To achieve the power levels that they put out (assuming that the specs are somewhat accurate) yes, they are accurate........ my 4430's require that much power, too ton's of watts are lost in the passive crossover to make them ruler flat in response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Duke, do the QSCs do well in any sort of bridged mode operation? If a set of speakers can take all a 500 wpc amp can throw, it's been my experience that running monoblocs may help out with headroom, and generally will clean up the sound a little. Mark, the Blueberry walked all over a restored C20 and C22 in the phono section. I enjoyed the aux section of the C22 slightly more, but it was coloured slightly in the bass. If I threw an equalizer into the mix, the Blueberry would win hands down. The Blueberry has better extension, balance, is much quieter, and presents a better soundstage than either, and has a better warranty and customer service department. The C2200 is the only Mac preamp I've hear that can best the Blueberry, and it was a tussle. In the end the 2200 struck me as being a little quieter and darker, with a vanishing noise floor. The modern Macs really tightened up the vintage Mac signature sound that I find to be slightly robust and warm, especially in the bass. Tiger, I apologize for not following your thread in complete detail. If you want to get a pre with a remote and add a phono section as well, the Peach obviously needs to be supplanted. It would be hard to find a remote tube pre that has a great phono section, and also factor in what appears to be a latent desire to find one with a 25 to 30 dB gain range to drive the B&Ws to higher volumes. Good Luck! You are more than welcome to drop in for our August Battle of the amps. While there will be a plethora of amps representing, we will have Mark's complete line of preamps(excluding the Peach extreme,) and some worthy competitors to boot. Carl's five channel QSC driven HT is a system you will remember for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Duke, do the QSCs do well in any sort of bridged mode operation? If a set of speakers can take all a 500 wpc amp can throw, it's been my experience that running monoblocs may help out with headroom, and generally will clean up the sound a little. I haven't owned a QSC in 30 years , Dave..... i'm a guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 and not a fan of bridging amps, for many reasons... noise, thermal and damping factor reasons mostly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Chris, Check out this audiogon listing: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1156792429 Although I haven't heard this model myself, I did like all the Threshold preamps that I've heard and prefer their sonic signature to most other solid state preamps I did hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I think mine is the second one of your production bench, Mark. Other than the caps being bounced apart during a UPS shipment down to Dee's place, which Dean and then you repaired, and incorporated a design change to eliminate future cases, this Blueberry has been trouble free. With all the changes, moves, components switched in and out, and a three year old burning to get at the Blueberry, it has yet to even cough. It has been turned off at power, turned on with a SS amp potted to 100%(this one wiped out the Khorn fuses,) had cables knocked off during a wrestling match, and shown the varied faults of many of the amps and cables. Guy, that Threshold looks sweet. Is this one a Pass design as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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