Anyone heard the Tangent T-5000(s)???

[swapface]

I happen to currently own a pair of Tangent 500s with updated crossovers from Crites. They are basically HIIs with a passive woofer. They do sound pretty good I really enjoy them in my 2 channel system. 

 

I've also owned a pair of KG 5.5s (my son currently has them) and I have a friend with a pair of KLF 30s. I would pick the KLF 30s over the 500s and the 5.5s any day. Really the best of both worlds. 3 way with dual active  12' woofers.

[oliver2]

On 31/03/2014 at 9:43 AM, beeker said:

I sent a pm detailing what else iv found. Im familiar with the px&over sea military klipsch that were also very, very popular at the time of the original release of the 1st tangent i believe to be the tangent 80...also on that 89 video it provides insight to the tangent engineer who went to jbl if im not mistaken shortly after he and paul were at arms with each other...the 5000 the way i see it was released about a year after klipsch let him go....the 500 series as well as far as i can find thus far. Tangents are a large mystery to say the least

edit:topy city wrote to fast

There's a guy called "Woody" in the 1989 Video on Youtube. The Klipsch employee stated that the Tangent line was introduced by Woody, and that Paul was not too keen of Tangents. Woody is probably:

 

Woody Jackson
President/CEO, Klipsch, Inc, November 1978 – June 1992 (13 years 8 months)

President/CEO 1988-1992
National Sales Manager 1983-1988
Western Regional Sales Manager 1980-1983
Midwestern Sales Manager 1978-1980

 

when he left Klipsch, he went to PWJ Consulting.

 

The relatively bad reputation of the Tangent series might come from the fact, that the smaller Tangent series (e.g. T100) were not up to the classical Klipsch speakers. They were smaller bookshelves, sold in volumes through PX/BX  AFEES military stores around the globe.

 

The T-5000 as the high-end version however, has the same/similar drivers as e.g. the Forte/Heresy II, and uses the Heresy -II crossover.

T-5000 Drivers:

K-75-K 1"
K-53-K 1.5"
K-28-K 12"
K-120 12"

 

I assume the T-5000 will sound great, and I will soon be able to compare it with a Forte.

Edited November 3, 2016 by oliver2

[oliver2]

Here's an article from 1992 on the Tangent series, Arkansas Business, March 9, 1992:

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Never+sounded+better%3A+Klipsch+%26+Associates+Inc.+of+Hope+introduces...-a012133079

 

[absolve2525]

Very interesting read, Oliver. I'm really enjoying my recapped T-5000 with Crites tweeters. ☺️ Keep us updated. 

[jjptkd]

Yes, I've had these speakers before and was rather surprised by how good they sounded. This was years ago when I lived in an apartment where the main living room wall was shared with the neighbor on the other side. I was running Chorus II's at the time and not long after I moved in I got a note on my door explaining that some of the neighbor's family photos had fallen off their wall from my stereo playing too loud. This was with no subwoofer, just the Chorus II's being powered by a Yamaha M-85 power amplifier.

 

I didn't think I was really playing it too loudly and blamed the rear passives on the Chorus II's for the problem so I immediately did some research and started looking for some temporary replacements that didn't have a rear passive or ports. It just so happened there was this set of Tangents on CL and at that time I had never heard of them. Most of the reviews online were pretty much negative, no one seemed to like them and complained at how cheap they were.

 

Well, for $200 I decided to take the plunge, the front firing passive and relatively low price along with a quality driver compliment convinced me to give them a whirl. I was really unsure if they were going to adequately fill the shoes of the Chorus II but honestly it was not a bad compromise overall. They sounded pretty good and I was able to crank them up quite a bit without disturbing the neighbors. They don't have as much bass as the Chorus anyways and the front firing passive directs what bass they do have out into the room instead of bouncing off the rear wall.  

 

The cabinet quality is really lacking on these, looked like 5/8's thick MDF and vinyl wrapped. Also the drivers are surfaced mounted instead of flush mounted. I never had any issues with the cabinets rattling or anything but yeah, they definitely were  the "cheaper" models when compared to say the forte. Great sound, cheap cabinets.

[absolve2525]

Yeah, the cabinets aren't as nice as the Chorus II (I have both). There's a lot of hot glue and many small corner braces inside.  Surprisingly, the backs havent blown off mine either, so apparently it did the job. The plastic caps on the binding posts can rattle and buzz, but they're decent enough gold-plated. I really crank em though. Very nice drivers and crossover. 

[oliver2]

Here's some additional information, thanks to Woody Jackson, former CEO of Klipsch Inc., who kindly answered my questions.

Woody: "I was with Klipsch for a number of years and worked my way from a territory sales rep in the late 70’s to National Sales Manager through 88; then CEO until I left the company in 92. I have very fond memories of my years there!!"

Question: A 1989 Video of Klipsch on Youtube mentions you. Were you the creator of the Tangent line ?

Woody: "I was not the creator of the Tangent product line.  It was created in the middle to late 1980’s as a product line to be sold into the US military bases in the AAFES (Army Air Force Exchange Service) in Europe and Pacific locations. While Klipsch Engineering designed the product the sales staff (including myself) was very actively involved with “voicing” any products Klipsch produced.  We would listen to new models and compare them with slight variations in crossover designs until we were satisfied that the new product had the “Klipsch” sound."

Question: Is it right that Paul Klipsch (who was 87 at that time, and didn't seem involved actively anymore), was not keen on the Tangent line, and why would that be ?

Woody:  "The Tangent line allowed us to package classic Klipsch sonics into a less expensive cabinet. It was designed to provide a lower cost product that more servicemen could afford. The Tangent line was built using vinyl covered MDF (fiber board) instead of the classic Klipsch real wood veneers over hardwood.  This reduced cost. The Tangent line wasn’t sold very extensively in the US markets as most of the Klipsch distribution in the US was with independent specialty retailers. As I recall, we may have put the Tangent line into a couple of regional retailers in the US that were more “big box” oriented."

Question: Rumours say, there was an engineer that developed the Tangents, and the guy left to JBL. That might be a word-of-mouth tradicted false information, and it was you, who later left to PWJ Consulting ?

Woody:
"I don’t recall any Klipsch engineers leaving for JBL.  The engineers on staff at the time the Tangent line was released largely stayed on with Klipsch for many years.  Like any company we had turnover but I don’t recall anyone going over to JBL. We had one engineer get involved in the automotive audio industry as I recall. After leaving Klipsch I did form PWJ Consulting.  I was primarily a channel/sales and marketing consultant but wasn’t just limited to audio (although I had several audio clients). "

Woody:
"Klipsch was my “dream job”. I regretted leaving the company for many years but when I look at the state of audio distribution (retailers) in the US market today I’m glad I’m no longer in that industry. My expertise was in bridging the gap between what the market wanted from us and what we wanted to engineer. That, in addition to being a heavily relationship based manager with Klipsch retailers and distributors. That type of relationship approach really doesn’t exist much anymore in the US."

Question: A lot of historic information about the classical Klipsch speakers and the Paul W. Klipsch time is available on the internet, but not much information about the time when Paul was older and probably (assumption) not so active anymore.

Woody:
"Lastly, I’m not certain about the absence of news from ‘88-‘92.  After Paul sold the company to Fred Klipsch I dug in as CEO under Fred’s ownership and we did extensive re-working of our approach to manufacturing.  We implemented a lot of positive changes on the plant floor to better forecast our costs and manage our costs.  During that time we made an extremely successful introduction of a newly remodeled line of Klipsch KG speaker products (KG-1, KG-2, KG-3, KG-4 and KG-5) and also introduced a line of architectural in-wall speakers. The amount of time devoted to those efforts likely precluded our ability to do much public relations/press work but I was very active in US based audio groups at the time. There was an article published in American Airlines “American Way” magazine which I noted someone had posted (scans) on the community forum."

 

American Way article:

 

Edited November 4, 2016 by oliver2

[oliver2]

We did a shootout between Forte-1, Forte-2 and Tangent T-5000

 

Forte-1 had a little bit more bass than Forte-2.

Forte-2 sounded less grainy and more clear in mid-tones, probably due to the Tractrix Horn, but had less bass.

 

Tangent T-5000 is almost indistinguishable when compared to the Forte's. Sits in between Forte-1 and Forte-2.

Better bass than Forte-2, very same mid/high tone representation as Forte-1.

Indistinguishable, if you don't hear them in direct comparison, and even then differences are minimal.

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by oliver2

[jjptkd]

Very cool! I assume you moved the speakers around when testing to ensure placement wasn't effecting the tests? I've done my own fairly extensive listening tests between the forte models and found the difference in the mids just as you described but it was pretty subtle. I really don't think the casual listener would notice much if any difference at all between them.

[absolve2525]

Nice comparison! I have really been getting a kick out of the T-5000s. I wondered how they compared, since they are so similar to the other two models. Mine benefited greatly from the Ti tweeters and recap. The history of the T-5000 is quite interesting also.

[Generg]

11 hours ago, absolve2525 said:

Nice comparison! I have really been getting a kick out of the T-5000s. I wondered how they compared, since they are so similar to the other two models. Mine benefited greatly from the Ti tweeters and recap. The history of the T-5000 is quite interesting also.

So Oliver you see, the Titanium tweeter diaphragms from are highly recommended, not only from me.

The pictures were taken in my small living room. I am just occupied to get the squawker Tianium diaphragms working.

I looked at my friends Cornwall III crossover and indeed I saw that Klipsch uses for the squawker a band pass.

No more autoformer, only a 30 Ohm resistor in series adding to the squawker DC resistance.

[oliver2]

22 hours ago, jjptkd said:

Very cool! I assume you moved the speakers around when testing to ensure placement wasn't effecting the tests? I've done my own fairly extensive listening tests between the forte models and found the difference in the mids just as you described but it was pretty subtle. I really don't think the casual listener would notice much if any difference at all between them.

Yes, Generg and me moved the speakers around, ensuring the different speakers are in the same listening positions.

Both of us heard the same as you did.

[vtpalmer]

I have someone who is interested in trading their Klipsch T-5000 for my Klipsch Forte I’s. Is that a fair trade? 

[billybob]

23 minutes ago, vtpalmer said:

I have someone who is interested in trading their Klipsch T-5000 for my Klipsch Forte I’s. Is that a fair trade? 

Depending upon your forte' condition and the T-5000.

An even up trade depending upon

your interest and how you are liking your forte' would depend upon both speakers condition, whether it is a straight up trade.

Only thing know so far is that the T-5000 is black Ash vinyl veneer...

What finish and condition are yours? Another known is the build quality is better with yours.

All things being equal, I would want abit of money on top of the trade... More Info needed to say...and think the forte' bass is a bit better, given the front passive radiator if the T-5000.

Have owned the forte' 1 and the T-500 which is just a tad less efficient than the T-5000...in my limited opinion.

 

[vtpalmer]

I have someone who is interested in trading their Klipsch T-5000 for my Klipsch Forte I’s. Is that a fair trade?  The fortes are in my home theater and they are oak. But every other speaker in the theater room is black. The ceiling is black there are black curtains and dark grey walls. Yes my fortes are in excellent shape. 

[billybob]

9 minutes ago, vtpalmer said:

I have someone who is interested in trading their Klipsch T-5000 for my Klipsch Forte I’s. Is that a fair trade?  The fortes are in my home theater and they are oak. But every other speaker in the theater room is black. The ceiling is black there are black curtains and dark grey walls. Yes my fortes are in excellent shape. 

In the open market, your forte'would typically fetch more money than the T-5000 on most any given day in like condition...If you just want to trade for whatever reason, you should do what you want.

[billybob]

Personally, if both in like condition and the other person want to, I would ask for a $100 note... just me and really nothing much here nor there...

[jjptkd]

10 hours ago, vtpalmer said:

I have someone who is interested in trading their Klipsch T-5000 for my Klipsch Forte I’s. Is that a fair trade?  

 

Short answer no, significantly lesser quality cabinet with the Tangent line.

[ummagumma-89]

On 3/19/2014 at 3:13 PM, beeker said:

I'll be...another pair of 3000's. The guy i traded mine too took mine all beat up and covered them in oak...they looked gorgeous and im an avid black finish collector. I truly wish id kept them now but then i was trade and swap crazy and also lost them. Every pair of klipsch iv sold iv regreted especially heresys considering new klipsch people apparently spend so so much money on them. Your the 4th person iv heard had the 3000's. Iv known of or seen i believe 6 or 7 pairs of 4000's not owning 4k's but have heard some...several 4k's have been on ebay...The 3000 seem rare. Seems all tangent thousands are pretty rare as are the hundreds...Im out of positives at the moment yet il get you some soon. Unlike the takers not giving around here lol

Do you remember if klipsch had any foam dampening in those cabs? I have the t-500s and they had 2 pieces of foam on the left and right side extending half way up the cab. Loosely inserted in there. Just curious what the 5000 has. Those are ported are they not?

[moray james]

Remember that it is the reflex vent (or a passive radiator which amounts to the same action) which damps the woofer in the cabinet. Any additional damping material is going to be in there for other reasons such as catching upper out of band response from the woofer which you don't want singing inside of the cabinet and or leaking out through the vent (here is where a passive works in your favor as it filters out some of the out or band response through the passive cone) and last to gain some apparent cabinet volume. You also want to remember that with a reflex cabinet you must have an open volume of air (with zero damping material, this applies to reflex vents as well as passive radiators) which is free to go into resonance, this is what connects the woofer to the vent so the system can work. You can have some damping on the walls but that is only going to be there to catch and diminish some of that out of band woofer response I mentioned. I hope this helps.