Piggybacking my other thread...new receiver or x-over upgrade?

[wuzzzer]

As I was sitting here reading the replies to my new receiver thread, it dawned on me that I could have Dean upgrade my crossovers for a bit less than I'd thought of paying for a new receiver. My question would be, which would give me the more bang for my buck?

I'd especially like to hear from others who have Dean's modified RF-7 crossovers.

[co]

[Daddy Dee]

I've heard Dean's RF-7 crossovers, but not owned them. I was impressed with the improvement of the RF-7.

What is your contemplated receiver upgrade?

[wuzzzer]

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/774424.aspx

Something in the $400-500 range, can be either 2 channel or multichannel, just something nicer than I have.

[whell]

Echoing some other sentiments posted regarding your question over your two threads, I just can't help but wondering if you wouldn't be better off upgrading the elctronics first, then see where you are. My suspicion is that you've got a whole new world of sound awaiting you by updating your receiver to a good quality amp/pre-amp combo. The right integrated amp can also give you excellent results.

This upgrade would probably give you the best taste of what the RF-7's are really capable of. Then, if you want to tweak them with a crossover upgrade, you'll be able to approach that decision knowing how the RF-7's sound when the upstream equipment is at it's best.

[Arky]

Echoing some other sentiments posted regarding your question over your two threads, I just can't help but wondering if you wouldn't be better off upgrading the elctronics first, then see where you are. My suspicion is that you've got a whole new world of sound awaiting you by updating your receiver to a good quality amp/pre-amp combo. The right integrated amp can also give you excellent results.

This upgrade would probably give you the best taste of what the RF-7's are really capable of. Then, if you want to tweak them with a crossover upgrade, you'll be able to approach that decision knowing how the RF-7's sound when the upstream equipment is at it's best.

This makes very logical sense. My experience:

Dean did my networks. Installed & ran them using my same H/K 7200 receiver. Improvement was immediate. Have since gone to separates & the improvement was immediate again. I believe the improved sound i'm enjoying is directly related to the network upgrade.

[DrWho]

I have had that reciever (or one very similar - I dont' remember the

specific model # but the remote looks the same) on 3 different pairs of

speakers and they all sounded infinetly better when we moved to a Denon

1803 (not a fancy reciever by any means). I am confident the

improvement in sound will dwarf any crossover modification.

[oldbuckster]

Step up to 5.1 or more, move away from Pro Logic, even if you get a real nice 2 channel amp, why cheat yourself of 5.1 or DTS, makes your one system more versatile, unless you just don't care about Movies and Concert DVD's, optical inputs are nice........You must of cared,or you wouldn't have pro logic............so, move up, and see and hear what surround sound really is.....................

[Zen Traveler]

Step up to 5.1 or more, move away from Pro Logic, even if you get a real nice 2 channel amp, why cheat yourself of 5.1 or DTS, makes your one system more versatile, unless you just don't care about Movies and Concert DVD's, optical inputs are nice........You must of cared,or you wouldn't have pro logic............so, move up, and see and hear what surround sound really is.....................

I was going to recommend something similar but I realized this was the 2-Channel forum and that I would open the door to a verbal pummeling for advocating a defection (or at least trying to brainwash a double agent) into the wonderful world of Multi-channel. []

[oldbuckster]

tkdamerica, I don't fear 2 channel guys...............What can they do?...............He must have wanted Home Theatre or he wouldn't have Pro Logic.............5.1 is so far ahead of pro logic..................DTS is nice, too..............pro logic is DEAD...unless you have VHS......

[Zen Traveler]

tkdamerica, I don't fear 2 channel guys...............What can they do?...

They are single handily trying to bring down Klipsch inc! On one of the threads I mistakenly clicked on they were actually trying to talk folks with 2 speakers to actually convert back to mono! [] How good could that be for our favorite speaker company if people start splitting pairs of Cornwalls, Lascalas, Klipschorns--Next they will be working their way into the Reference line.

I'm telling you OB, these guys are ruthless. Be careful and good luck posting over here--[]

[Hardhead]

I think the crossover upgrade would be a wiser decision. The truth is that, if you need to upgrade your crossovers, you really haven't heard what your present receiver actually sounds like. After the crossover upgrade you might like your receiver so much you won't want to change it, or it might even sound better than the new receiver you're considering.

[whell]

tkdamerica, I don't fear 2 channel guys...............What can they do?...............He must have wanted Home Theatre or he wouldn't have Pro Logic.............5.1 is so far ahead of pro logic..................DTS is nice, too..............pro logic is DEAD...unless you have VHS......

Well, this particular 2 channel guy kissed multi channel music and movies goodbye about 8 months ago and has never looked back. 2 channel is fully capable of producing a satisfying musical and theatrical experience. Just depends on what your priorities are.

If music is the passion, then realize that you'd have to drop A TON of cash into a multi-channel system to get it to produce a satisfying 2 channel experience, IMHO. If you're info movies more than music, then by all means go grab a respectable mutli-channel receiver and have a ball.

[Zen Traveler]

... 2 channel is fully capable of producing a satisfying musical and theatrical experience. Just depends on what your priorities are.

TKDA: I agree.

If music is the passion, then realize that you'd have to drop A TON of cash into a multi-channel system to get it to produce a satisfying 2 channel experience, IMHO.

TKDA: I agree with half of that. []

If you're info movies more than music, then by all means go grab a respectable mutli-channel receiver and have a ball.

TKDA: I love Multi-channel music and well recorded concert DVD's along with movies. I guess this goes full circle to your first observation. []

I prefer multi-channel, but always enjoy listening to exquisite 2 channel set ups. [8] {edit: I realize this was geared toward Mr. Buckster but I felt the need to clarify my position}

[sheltie dave]

Wuzzer, do you want the RF7s to be outstanding, or to improve your receiver?

If you like the way the RF7s sound now, by all means flip the receiver to get a better setup.

I have Dean's crossovers in mine, and the improvement is there for any setup. You may or may not like a different receiver in your system, but you will like the ability to drive the RFs to higher volume without breakup or shouting, and an improved soundstage and imaging. I've run mine every day since an Altec swap with Carl, and we both came out winners.

I didn't buy into crossover mods and changing tweets, lenses, and many of the other perceived snake oil pitches that clutter the streets, but this first step made me realize some of the mods are indeed valued, measurable, and noticable improvments. The crossovers in the RF7s are my very first Klipsch mod, and I kinda have too many Klipsch speakers, even with the Belles, La Scalas, Heresys, and SS1s sent down the road to friends. Dean, Al, and Bob are all putting out good products that people need now or in the future.

[wuzzzer]

Wow! Lots of great advice here!

I wouldn't shy away from a multichannel amp, but I only have two speakers now and don't foresee getting a center or surrounds for a looong time. I sold my previous system (Definitive Technology) to pay for my RF-7s. I too feel that a great 2 channel setup can be just as enthralling as surround sound for movies and music.

Considering that, ideally if I were to get a new amplification device it would be 2 channel only.

This might sound like a stupid question, but is there any difference between an integrated amplifier and a stereo receiver? Are they one in the same?

Also, how difficult is it to remove the crossovers from RF-7s? I seem to have a knack for not being the most mechanically inclined, so if it involves too much work I just may have made up my mind as far as the new receiver versus crossover upgrade question.

[DrWho]

An integrated amplifier and any reciever have preamp stages built into them. A regular amplifier does not. I believe the only difference is that a reciever has switching capability between multiple audio and video sources. If an integrated ever had switching capability, it's probably audio only.

As far as removing the crossover - I'm pretty sure all you need to do is unscrew the input cup, pull it out, unscrew the crossover and then put the new one in.

[Arky]

As far as removing the crossover - I'm pretty sure all you need to do is unscrew the input cup, pull it out, unscrew the crossover and then put the new one in.

Correct. I had never been inside a speaker before & I changed all 3 0f my 7's in 45 minutes.

IMO, this is your best bang for your buck. The guy's that have not heard it do not know the dramatic improvement this mod makes.

[oldbuckster]

TKDA, and Whell, What's this If Music was the Passion Crap? If I choose to have a 5.1 set-up Music isn't my passion? Your singing to the wrong choir here fellows...........Music is the Passion always has been, always will be...............the 5.1 for movies and concert dvd's makes me more VERSATILE with my home unit.............I listen to Music cd's in 2 channel, I cannot afford to have 2 different systems, 2 channel, and 5.1, to suit my needs, so I chose a HT Reciever to service my needs............like every other average Joe consumer...........the technical stuff kills me, some I understand, some I don't, but I LOVE the Music...........with or without fancy stereo equipment, the Music is always there..........In the end I could live without the equipment, but in this day and age, Why would you limit yourself to one form of entertainment, try it all, Listen to music in 2 channel, but Oh Boy, those Movies in 5.1 or DTS are pretty damn good too...................I'm not afraid of the dreaded 2 Channel Guys...........Bring Em' On..........Enjoy the Music.............

[Zen Traveler]

TKDA, and Whell, What's this If Music was the Passion Crap? If I choose to have a 5.1 set-up Music isn't my passion? Your singing to the wrong choir here fellows...........

FWIW, My response was to whell and not commenting on your thoughts. I am sure you care about the music as much as the rest of us. BTW, My original comments were made tongue in cheek. []

{edit: I didn't mean to say that I agreed with whell and that I left multi-channel--only the latter part of his statement which I went back and corrected}

[Deang]

"I am confident the improvement in sound will dwarf any crossover modification."

A speaker is like a microphone in a way -- it's basically a pickup device. So, the more transparent and open the speaker is, the less forgiving it will be of mediocre downstream components. All network upgrades, regardless of the filter type -- will quickly reveal any problems downstream. So, the better your gear the more you like the upgrade -- the worse it is the more you wonder if you should have messed with the speaker at all.

OTOH, the RF-7 has a treble that is naturally tipped up, and at times it can be brutal -- especially with Redbook playback. Here is a case that no matter how good the gear is -- the top is pinning your ears back.

This is a tough call. His receiver is pretty old, and it wasn't that great to begin with. In the end he will probably want to do both, but if it was me I would dump the receiver asap and buy a nice Cambridge unit to match his already pretty decent CD player. After that, he can think about the network mod -- which will highlight the good gear instead of the bad gear.