Isotaps

[Coytee]

Mark said:

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Since you have the basement walls open I assume you are adding wiring. Why not just create a couple of dedicated circuits with their own breakers.

When I built my house I specified specific cicuits like that all over the place. My pet peave is lights that dim and blink.

Just trying to help

My response was

Well Mark, you actually hit it on the head. My plan is to put a second panel box down there. I want to add the "regular" wiring to my current box and have 100% of my sound stuff come off the 2nd panel. I plan on using orange recepticles or something like that so I'll know which outlets are segregated.

I'm thinking on putting a bank of switches near the door so you can simply walk into the room and hit the switches to power everything up. That will prevent me from having to hit a bunch of power buttons, use a power strip...

Wife has no idea I'm putting this kind of thought into stuff down there so I might have some other realities to deal with when we get into this.

Does creating a dedicated circuit create the same benefit as I understand the isotap box does? Seems to me you'd still be plugged into the household wiring and isn't THAT where the problem is?

Oh, if my plan can work (from a panel and code perspective) I intend on having single dedicated runs to these orange outlets with each piece having it's own breaker instead of having several outlets on a common line.

Any thoughts on that logic?

[SilverSport]

...looking forward to replies on this as well...thanks Coytee.

Bill

[Guest " "]

Coytee

You are correct in the understanding that running dedicated lines does not add any value in terms of "power clean-up", "regulation", "conditioning" or "isolation".

I am not sure what an ISOTAP is. Searching google just puts me in endless loops pointing to e-bay.

A piece if useful info I can add here, is an overview of some basics.

The power coming into your house typically is 220 delivered as 110-0-110. The zero being neutral, the 110 phases are opposites. When delivered into your house, you received balanced power in that any noise on the line could be cancelled out buy the inverted noise that would exist on the opposite phase. This would be an ideal situation if all your equipment were 220. Here lies the problem, by using 110 equipment, you are only using one of the 2 incoming 110 phases of power, hence, your incoming power is no longer balanced, and noise no longer gets cancelled out by the opposite inverted phase.

Whats the fix?

Many consumer solutions attempt to clean up the power using capacitors, inductors, and MOV's. The inductors are associated with reducing the dynamic range of amps due to the restriction they place on incoming current.

More advanced device will take the single phase 110 and convert it to 60-0-60, which puts you back in a balanced power scenario. Your 110 devices get's plugged into an outlet which is basically tapped across the two out of phase 60 volt runs, providing you with 110/120 balanced power.

Some studios convert all their equipment to 220. A lot of equipment made for international sales supports 110 or 220. The conversion is simply a matter of re-wiring the power transformer, which typically consist of two primary windings. The windings wired in parallel are used for 110, and the windings wired in series are used for 220.

I have been looking into using two step down auto formers to convert my 110-0-110 into 60-0-60 rather than the current approach of going 110-0-110 down to 110-0 and back to 60-0-60.

[mikebse2a3]

The RCA or VIZ Isotaps are basically steup/down ISOLATION Transformers and were used in many Electronics Repair Centers for isolation to safely work on Electronic Equipment (IE: Televisions and etc...) with "HOT" Grounds.

The main benefit is the potential breakup of ground loop hum created by our equipment having different voltage potentials on there ground circuits which sometimes introduces hum and noise into our systems. The other benefit is the ability to lower the AC Voltage to vintage equipment.

Most Variac will not give you the isolation that these transformers will. Some variacs use a rehostat to control the output voltage and for whatever reason they seem to affect the sound in a negative way(Dynamics) to me so I don't like to use those types.

mike tn[]

[mikebse2a3]

Bottom View Specs.

[mikebse2a3]

mike tn[]

[Coytee]

So Mike, when you say you don't like to use "these types", you mean the "Variac" as contrasted with the Isotaps?

Would it then follow that you DO like these type? (Isotaps)

Presuming so, am I reasonably concluding that one would realistically need one of these for each amp? In our case, that would be two minimum for bi-amping and up to four if you're using four mono's?

Would one then put one on the other parts of the equation? (Cd/Dvd/preamp...)

They're not too expensive although I suppose their ebay values just shot up with everyone reading this. []

Just how many items will something like this service? (other than "it depends") !!!

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IS-500

Regular price: $145.95

Sale Cost: $114.98

Quantity :

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IS-500

Regular price: $145.95

Sale Cost: $114.98

Quantity :

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[mikebse2a3]

So Mike, when you say you don't like to use "these types", you mean the "Variac" as contrasted with the Isotaps?

The Isotaps I like for breaking up some ground loop problems and voltage control for vintage equipment. I've never felt like I heard any negative effects from using one of them.

I was speaking of the Variacs with the Rehostat Control for voltage variations.

Some Variacs just use a movable contact making connections to different windings on the Autoformer and they work good to me as far as voltage control but offer no isolation benefits.

Others use a Rehostat(Wirewound Resistive Control) that adds resistance in series with the Output Voltage and it's this type that I feel can affect the sound.

Would it then follow that you DO like these type? (Isotaps) YES!

Presuming so, am I reasonably concluding that one would realistically need one of these for each amp? In our case, that would be two minimum for bi-amping and up to four if you're using four mono's?

It just depends on the individual system and sometimes one is all it takes. I usually try one on each componet till it helps the Hum situation. Remember you are just breaking a ground loop problem so it might just be one componet that is creating most of your Hum Problem.These transformers are limited in their output capability(see bottom of unit, approx. 400 watts) so you can't use them with some high wattage amps.

Would one then put one on the other parts of the equation? (Cd/Dvd/preamp...)

As long as the wattage you demand from it is less than it's rated maximum you can use a power strip into it so that several componets can be supplied by it.

They're not too expensive although I suppose their ebay values just shot up with everyone reading this. []

Just how many items will something like this service? (other than "it depends") !!!

Searching for ground loop problems can be difficult in a complex system and its a good idea to simplify the system while trying to find the offending componet. I like to start by just hooking up the amp and placing (Shorting Plugs on the Inputs to make sure no noise is introduced by open input connections) (A RCA Type Shorting Plug can be made by cutting an old RCA Cable and twisting or soldering the center pin wire with the shield/negative wire or buying a couple of plugs from Radio Shack and again making a connection between the center pin and the outside of the plug/shield connection of the Plug.) If everything is quite then hookup the Pre-Amp for example and place the shorting plugs on one set of the inputs(ie:CD Player for example) and set the selector to that input. Then turn the system back ON and listen for any HUM again. If still nothing then start Hooking up the Source Componets(ie: CD Player, Tuner, etc....) till your HUM shows up again! Then try the Isolation Transformer on that componet to see if it helps lower or eliminate the HUM Problem.

Ground Loops can be hard to track down sometimes so it helps to start simple.

Don't overlook problems due to Television Cable Systems in Audio/Video setups. If this is were the Hum is coming from then buy or make a cable isolation device to eliminate the HUM due to this source.

mike tn[]

[Cal Blacksmith]

Speaking as an electrician, I can see no advantage for each

outlet having its own breaker. Though you are going to identify the outlets

from the second panel, you can still get noise on the second panel due to the

fact that it is connected to the first panel and any motors etc that are

running on the first panel (refrigerator, vacuum cleaner, fans, AC etc.) can

and will still send spikes throughout the whole system. Better grounding of the

second panel will help (be sure to follow LOCAL code as there are several ways

to add a panel and your building inspector / city, will have their preferred

way to do it.).

You might be able to use an isolation transformer to filter

the power to the second panel, (though units big enough to service a sub panel

are very expensive) if your local codes allow such a setup. That could help.

Many of the better UPS devices will have an isolation transformer and voltage

adjusting circuit built in to keep a constant voltage to the equipment

regardless of what the power company is doing, (to a point.) I have one of

these devices (without the battery backup) connected to my computer equipment.

[Kriton]

Hey Fritz,

Could you just post say a link or an item number for those Tripp-Lite Isolators?

I tried to find them and either your post sold them all, or they are very secretive?

Thanks!

K

[Coytee]

Speaking as an electrician, I can see no advantage for each outlet having its own breaker. .

Simply overkill in the other direction. I currently have (sitting on two circuits), up to 3 tube amps (on single circuit), cd player, dvd player, Peach, Satellite receiver, HD Tv, XLR transformer box, eq, expander and I still have 2 more amps I could swap around...I've got two power strips and just KNOW I'm pushing this line.

I detest all these things on so few circuits so I want to be sure EVERY amp has it's own circuit. I don't mind doubleing up on the outboard items. Since I'll have a lot of slots avaiable, I figure why not?

It might help you to know the wife once asked me to build a cat house out of stuff we had laying around (on the cheap).

The cathouse (made for outdoors) ended up being made from 2x6's, had two floors, hinged roof AND had a thermostatically controlled heater inside. Of course, it's shingles matched our house, as did the T-11 "siding", match the look of the logs on the house.

Oh, the only way to MOVE this contraption was to lash it to the loader bucket of my (full sized industrial) backhoe/loader. and put it where I wanted it.

So, ya... we laugh about me and my overkill at times.

[]

[sfogg]

"I detest all these things on so few circuits so I want to be sure EVERY amp has it's own circuit."

If you do end up doing this keep all your circuits on the same phase of the AC. In a typical circuit breaker box (at least the ones I've seen) that means using every other available slot in a row.

Keep in mind though the more AC circuits you have the more money you are going to have to spend for surge protectors for each circuit. And the more difficult/expensive it will be to automatically turn on all your equipment.

If most of your equipment is on a couple of trigger controlled power strip you can power everything up remotely with ease. When I turn on my pre-pro (by remote control) I have (3) Teac amps, (2) Adcom amps, (2) Crown amps, scaler, and a bunch of source equipment that turn on automatically too. Turn off the pre-pro and all that shuts off too.

I use two 20amp dedicated circuits in my theater.

Shawn

[seti]

It might help you to know the wife once asked me to build a cat house out of stuff we had laying around (on the cheap).

The cathouse (made for outdoors) ended up being made from 2x6's, had two floors, hinged roof AND had a thermostatically controlled heater inside. Of course, it's shingles matched our house, as did the T-11 "siding", match the look of the logs on the house.

Oh, the only way to MOVE this contraption was to lash it to the loader bucket of my (full sized industrial) backhoe/loader. and put it where I wanted it.

So, ya... we laugh about me and my overkill at times.

[]

Your wife let you have your own cathouse!?!?!?! WOW Does she have a sister?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&defl=en&q=define:cathouse&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

[6][8-)]

[Istari]

The Tripp-Lite model IS-500 units are not stepup/stepdown isolation transformers. So you'd have to have one of these and a variac to step down the voltage.

Most of my H. H. Scott amplifiers run best at 105.5 volts.

Here is the link for the Tripp-Lite unit:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-TRIPP-LITE-IS-500-FULL-ISOLATION-TRANSFORMER_W0QQitemZ330026500636QQihZ014QQcategoryZ32830QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting