Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 19, 2006 Moderators Share Posted September 19, 2006 I have a BlueBerry Xtreame on it's way, and I was wondering what tubes everyone is running in them. I recall an earlier thread on this issue, but my recollection was at that time most folks were just getting settled in with them and had not really been doing any tube "upgrades." I also seem to recall that several folks were very pleased with the stock tubes and were not giving other tubes any consideration at all. So I was wondering if that is still the case, if you are running the stock tubes, if you have gone with non-stock and if so, why and what did use for a replacement. Any thoughts or comments would be most appreciated. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 V1 - Telefunken ECC801SV2 - Telefunken 12AX7V3 - Mullard CV4024V4 - Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 This is similar to Gary's setup except he is using a CCA I think in the V4 slot (cha-ching!) I can only tell you that this sounds very good to me. I probably spent about 3 weeks with the stock tubes and they too sounded very nice. This combination just really added some life and detail to the phono outputs though. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 First off, you'll find that it'll sound great with the stock tubes that Mark sends. Listen for a while before rolling so you have a good basis for comparison. A quiet Cca or 6DJ8 is critical. I use a Seimans but other brands will do just fine. Quiet and cheap is better than noisy and expensive. I used to use a Pinch Waist but it became noisy after a while. The Seimans sounds just as good to me if not better. For phono, the most important tube is the V1(?) slot. After many tries, a VERY expensive original Telefunken ECC801S sounded better than anything else I tried. I have one in each phono slot now and a spare for down the road. I spent a small fortune to get backups because they sounded so good in comparison to everything else. This too might just be my preference for detail over bass/lushness. It'll cost you a bit of money to find the combo you like best. The 12AX7 is more of a preference thing IMO. I have a Telefunken and an Amperex. I use the Amperex because it gives me better detail. The Tele has a slight edge with bass. Good luck! Edit: Mike - We crossed paths. I ended up using the ECC801S in both phono slots. Maybe it's time to give that Tele 12AX7 another shot. Its been a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 I also seem to recall that several folks were very pleased with the stock tubes and were not giving other tubes any consideration at all. Travis I'm in that camp. Though my "stock" tubes were all NOS vintage of some sort. Tele's and Amperex I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Anybody catch the nice write-up Art Dudley just did in the latest Stereophile on Mark and his Blueberry. If you ordered it new Travis why not run what Mark installs from his shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Anybody catch the nice write-up Art Dudley just did in the latest Stereophile on Mark and his Blueberry. If you ordered it new Travis why not run what Mark installs from his shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Mark Deneen posted this once when the question came up before: First, keep in mind that the tube "brands" are going to account for the last 2% of what you hear - not 50% or anything like that. While comments from tube rollers are sometimes a bit hyperbolic and shall we say, over exuberant - that just goes along with the hobby and is good stuff but must be taken as the reality of what it is - "subtle differences based on taste." From a scientific point of view, all tubes of a given type perform the same with few exceptions. Yup. Not a hill of beans worth of difference in the bunch. Which means simply, you can't detect that midrange "sweetness" or "smoother treble" no matter how hard you look with instruments. Doesn't mean it isn't there, just means that the scientific approach won't get you to that last 2%. Think of it this way - you read a great recipe from your favorite chef. You try it exactly as he describes it, and you like it. But next time you make it, you try subtle variations of the seasonings to make it "just to your taste." That's the tube rolling idea. It's still "chile" that you are making, but now it is tempered exactly as you prefer it. There are some tried and true "winners" out there that many people have reasonable agreement about. For instance, a great many people prefer the Telefunken 12AX7 over just about any other brand of 12AX7. So, you can start with some of these tried and true varieties and be pretty confident that at least by popular opinion they are good. Also, if you know someone who IS into tubes, and you think your tastes agree with theirs in other respects of sound, you should pay attention to what they end up with. But, at the end of the day, it really is a lot like cooking. md Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 THX Scott, I guess if I had just looked to the next thread I would have saved that question. I guess the addage is true on but Kaiser ain't home[] Enjoy either way you go Trav[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwhaples Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Congrats Travis! When I bought my Blueberry,it was the basic. I installed the Seimens Cca tube after being recomended by Gary. The bass really kicked in with the Cca. I recently upgraded the Blueberry to the Xtreme with the Cream option. While Mark had it he replaced a couple tubes because he said some were getting weak.The Xtreme part of the upgrade took awhile,but it really helped the bass from basic. I then reinstalled the Cca,and didn't hear as big a difference as I did when I first had it in. I think the tubes Mark installs sound good as is.Happy waiting! Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Mark Deneen posted this once when the question came up before: First, keep in mind that the tube "brands" are going to account for the last 2% of what you hear - not 50% or anything like that. While comments from tube rollers are sometimes a bit hyperbolic and shall we say, over exuberant - that just goes along with the hobby and is good stuff but must be taken as the reality of what it is - "subtle differences based on taste." From a scientific point of view, all tubes of a given type perform the same with few exceptions. Yup. Not a hill of beans worth of difference in the bunch. Which means simply, you can't detect that midrange "sweetness" or "smoother treble" no matter how hard you look with instruments. Doesn't mean it isn't there, just means that the scientific approach won't get you to that last 2%. Think of it this way - you read a great recipe from your favorite chef. You try it exactly as he describes it, and you like it. But next time you make it, you try subtle variations of the seasonings to make it "just to your taste." That's the tube rolling idea. It's still "chile" that you are making, but now it is tempered exactly as you prefer it. There are some tried and true "winners" out there that many people have reasonable agreement about. For instance, a great many people prefer the Telefunken 12AX7 over just about any other brand of 12AX7. So, you can start with some of these tried and true varieties and be pretty confident that at least by popular opinion they are good. Also, if you know someone who IS into tubes, and you think your tastes agree with theirs in other respects of sound, you should pay attention to what they end up with. But, at the end of the day, it really is a lot like cooking. md I disagree. If I thought it was only 2%, I would have saved a few bucks. I still use the stock tubes in my VRDs but only the original rectifier tube in the BBX remains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Telefunken Smooth Plate 12AX7 2 Mullard CV2404s Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 (You may have to go through a few to find the best, quietest one. The BBx is quite particular. ) That is the best "bang for the buck" combo I have found. Sometimes "more detail" is just more gain, less bass or a combo of the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Sometimes "more detail" is just more gain, less bass or a combo of the two. ...............or the way it sounds.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 19, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted September 19, 2006 If you ordered it new Travis why not run what Mark installs from his shop? Yes, I ordered new, but if I just went with the stock tubes I would be normal and not have the need for this forum. I would just buy new stuff and be satisfied with it for years and years. Alas, i'm insane like I lot of folks on here and just can't leave well enough alone. I have to go ahead and start tweaking it. Then something else will come along and I will have to give that a try. I guess what I'm saying is:[8-)] Hello, My Name is Travis and I'm an Audioholic. By the way, has anyone done a side by side with a BBX and the BAT 3 or 5?[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Mine are stock. I am looking for a new 6dj8 but not too fast on the tube rolling., it has been 5 months or so with it "as is" which is an understatement. Just not finding any minor deficiencies to make me nuts...yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Mine are stock. I am looking for a new 6dj8 but not too fast on the tube rolling., it has been 5 months or so with it "as is" which is an understatement. Just not finding any minor deficiencies to make me nuts...yet. Just save your money Rick. If I never heard that ECC801S that Gilbert sent me, I'd never know what I was missing and I no doubt would be perfectly content. Actually, I was trying to find a quiet Cca when I tried it. Bad move. Costly move. But like Rick (3D) said, it's probably just the difference in gain.[*-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 I've got the v.2 original Blueberry stocked with a pair of 1979 Siemens-Halske ECC801S, and Orange Globe 12AX7 and 6DJ8/EC88. I too tried a bunch in that 6 slot. It is tough to find a quiet tube that sounds better than what Mark shipped with it. The Amperex OG sounds very slightly better. I went through a handful before finding the OG in a three year old box of tubes as I was hunting for 12AT7. The Siemens I found for not too much and bought them on a hunch. Sometimes you get lucky. I tried a bunch of 12AT7, most of which sounded just OK. NOS 60's RCA, Motorola, I can't even remember some of them... The silver lining there is that my Bassman takes a 12AT7 as well, so I've got rolling fodder for that beast. Nothing seems to make it sound bad other than the power tubes being suspect. The kid I got it from shipped it with a clear-top 12AU7 in the 12AT7 position. Sounded fine, but when I dropped a <> ECC81 in there, it really opened up-like backing off a compressor that's getting hit just a little too hard for its own good. The Tele was noisy as all get out in the BB, though. Also note that the tubes in the BB interact with and effect the operation of the other tubes in the circuit. Makes tube experimentation a bit more complex than you might think about a unit with four audio tubes. Then again, so does the case! Have fun & remember to listen to music regularly to distract yourself from the tube rolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Sometimes "more detail" is just more gain, less bass or a combo of the two. ...............or the way it sounds.[] Gary I was mostly refering to the CCa. I bought two. One was too noisey for the BBx but works fine in my other pre. The other worked in both. Both CCas gave a presentation which to my tastes was too forward. That would suggest to me a rolled off bass or higher gain in the upper mids. As you are well aware, YMMV. I never tried on of those big $$$$ Tele 801s. Want to take up a collection for a po'boy? Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Rick, I was just funin' with ya as I'm sure you know. All the tube rolling we've done with our BB's and the only tube that REALLY made a significant difference was that V1 ECC801S. All the others were in that 2% range (maybe up to 8%). The 12AX7 and 6DJ8 seemed to be the other important slots. I found that the 6DJ8 slot just needs a nice quiet, good quality tube to allow the rest to do the work but that V1..........that's the key for us vinyl guys. HUGE difference IMO!! I have a few different 6DJ8 tubes lying around that I haven't tried yet. Once I put the Seimans in, I stopped rolling. I have an Amperex and a couple other nice NOS tubes I've yet to try. Once I got it sounding the way I liked and all was quiet, I forced myself to stop. It was time to enjoy the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 "It was time to enjoy the music." Amen!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Man, I haven't even looked inside my BBX. One of these days I'll have to have a peek. So, how much do those ECC801ss go for? Anyone got a "loaner?" I guess I should see if Mark already put one in there...[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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