Moderators dtel Posted November 10, 2006 Moderators Share Posted November 10, 2006 Heard some JL speakers in a suv today, he said 151 db's with the db meter on the dash, which at the events is called legal ! It is a neighbor who does the car audio events, bass only, I would guess ![] We were talking about HT and music when he wanted me to listen to this, he asked what I thought and I told him turn it down about 90% so I can hear something besides the bass, when we got it to sound good he said that's about where my wife puts it ! I have to say those JL speakers were very clean compared to the normal boom you hear from most cars. I would love to hear a good HT sub from that company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 OB, Cruel I will not be,sick limited people are cruel. Truth I will tell,well JBL as a company has my highest respect,they are like Klipsch and Tannoy legends in sound. JBL makes some very capable woofers and their Ti lineup had a sub priced around $4000 I was looking to buy.It was discontinued and no luck for me. Well the I have no direct experience with the sub you have,but based only on others I heard in this price range I would go out on a limb and say,probably an above average sub,and a solid performer.JBL does not release lemons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 dtel, Car installations can surpass 150dB with ease,we know the space is very small,very easy to create serious compression with a few good woofers.A single W7 can pound so much subsonics you will lose hearing fast and make your voice sound funny,you will feel the air changing pressure big time. What the legendary JL W7 woofer can do is reproduce the highest quality sub bass and outperform almost all the cometition with ease.In fact only TC Sounds has drivers that aproach the cone travel of the W7! Unless I am mistaken,if so post me a link to a competitor who one ups the W7 in displacement(no larger than 15",the larger W7 is a 13.5"). Since I have the f113 I am TOTALLY satisfied,and with the GOTHAM I should reach for a new plateau in output and quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Rather tame answer from you, but it is proably a fair response...it does what I need it to do...........not THUNDEROUS like some you own...alwyays liked JBL,.except their Northridge Series, they never measured up to their standards, in my opinion........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoMany Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Well, the W7's are well engineered, but are approaching and end of a lifecycle. The LMS-5400 has a longer and wider voice coil than the 13W7 and it has a more windings for higher power handling and the driver itself has about 75% more BL product too. Not to mention its a total linear driver on top of that for even lower distortion. The LMS-5400 comes in a 12" and should outclass the 13W7 with even less cone area. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 11, 2006 Author Share Posted November 11, 2006 Outclass,then let anyone here buld a sealed sub using the most capable 12" in the TC SOunds catalog and pit it against the f113,lets see who comes on top. [] Will be very close in the worst case for the W7.I have no doubt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Outclass,then let anyone here buld a sealed sub using the most capable 12" in the TC SOunds catalog and pit it against the f113,lets see who comes on top. [] Will be very close in the worst case for the W7.I have no doubt pfft, I am building a dual lms 5400 18 inch sealed. Who wants a inferior 12...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepathlesstaken Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Hey Ear! What do you think of the JL compared to any of the Sunfire dual and single driver subs for two channel music listening? On the whole what do you think of the Sunfire subs for two channel music listening? Reason why I ask is I can hook a deal getting Sunfire subs and just want to know how musical they are. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 11, 2006 Author Share Posted November 11, 2006 Outclass,then let anyone here buld a sealed sub using the most capable 12" in the TC SOunds catalog and pit it against the f113,lets see who comes on top. [] Will be very close in the worst case for the W7.I have no doubt pfft, I am building a dual lms 5400 18 inch sealed. Who wants a inferior 12...... Inferior! You have CLEARLY no idea what you are talking about.The W7 is a world class woofer,and the GOTHAM and FATHOM subs world class subwoofers. Two of the most capable woofers are little compared with a design done by experts from JL Audio with a calibration system and amp made to match. [] I will buy two ANADA subs with the twin Crown amps.And then if I so desire the Velo 1812.Just for kicks and giggles. EDITED,yes I was a bit harsh,as harsh as a edgy low cost solid state driving the Jubilee. [:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 11, 2006 Author Share Posted November 11, 2006 Hey Ear! What do you think of the JL compared to any of the Sunfire dual and single driver subs for two channel music listening? On the whole what do you think of the Sunfire subs for two channel music listening? Reason why I ask is I can hook a deal getting Sunfire subs and just want to know how musical they are. Thanks in advance! Lets start with the basics,the new Sunfire D series subs are very good music subs and integrate well with mid to larger speakers.being sealed they roll off smoothly,and with room gain can surprise even SVS owners.They are great for small to mid sized rooms. The active/passive Sunfire (S Junior,EQ and Sig EQ) have much more output plus way better built quality.They rank almost with Revel,Velo DD and JL for parts quality! And these compete directly with Velo's best compact subs.The SIgnature EQ is potent even in a larger room! They can shake N bake with the best of them and are never boomy. The users/fake owners who claim these are boomy need hearing aids and a brain.Sunfire subs are known to drop in output above 70Hz! From around 20Hz to 60Hz they are very linear in room,remarkable for such a compact desigm. Also sealed subs no matter what make suffer all from greater and greater compression as SPL rises(the lower the freq.the higher the compression,as cone excursion and pressure rises inside the cabinet).So the active/passive are a better choice if money permits. On a side note,even TC Sounds(Sunfire uses TC Sounds woofers BTW) and JL woofers(these are some of the best made)will compress the original signal.Does not matter how costly the woofer,you cannot ignore physics here.But compression can only be audible at very high SPL.With largers 12" and up woofers this happens out of even loud peaks and is never a real consideration factor. The ideal design is a well ported or even better...IB design. Isobar ...pressure equal on both sides of the cone,no compression caused by it.If I could I would build a IB sub consisting of a dozen of large 18" woofers with at least 3in P to P capability.In the real world a great sealed or ported does the trick just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 ear i just read this thread in its entirety why did the sub come in to the dealer and you were going to drag it home the next day then it wasent there and still no pics? I thought you posted pics of this monster? I would also like to know what you DO for a living?? inquiring minds want to know!! deserve to know!! trust fund? credit cards?? come on man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 11, 2006 Author Share Posted November 11, 2006 Here,sorry.If I failed to post in this thread...any pics before. What do I do? For a living? I work! LOL WOrk 65-70 hours each week save for four weeks off during the year. Sell,build,configure...set up big gaming PC's,workstations and servers. For almost 10 years now. [] To me a PC under 2K is a piece of low cost WorstBuy device,a 5K workstation is a low cost unit and a server up to 40K (per module 3-4U) a good config. [] I have people comming many many miles referrals for very happy customers.Anyway to make a long story short,I work hard and play hard...buying on impulse from time to time. [:S] And when I post,the typos are so abundant people think I am some kid,with rich parents buying all I ask for.I am TheEAR and The TYPO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Congrats on the JL sub purchase... I picked up a JL F112 earlier this year in the summer... It is quite a capable sub. I am kind of surprised that it did not perform well in your tests. It seems pretty powerful in my room, but, nonetheless, I am still considering "downsizing". I cannot justify having that kind of money tied up in a sub when I am barely home to use it. It's probably had 10 hours on it in three months. Darned shame... Enjoy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramskoi Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 TheEar, "Outclass,then let anyone here buld a sealed sub using the most capable 12" in the TC SOunds catalog and pit it against the f113,lets see who comes on top. Will be very close in the worst case for the W7.I have no doubt." Arthur i would'nt think that you'd outclass the f113, but there are some peculiarities to note... Tc Sounds incorporates a high-roll surround with a smaller footprint which allows more of the cone area to be used (more sensitivity)...i'm not sure if JL, with their wider surround, has increased the sensitivity for the HTW7 implementations of the Fathom and Gotham...the 13w7 comes in around 86 dB, iirc...the question becomes how much does the wider surround eat into the effective Sd of the driver... The LMS 5400 will have the advantage in both linear excursion and max output before compression (4" VC)...and it will boast good sensitivity to boot... While there is no BL profile given for the HTW7, i would imagine that the 32-34mm Xmax figure does'nt represent lossless BL. If we use the typical 70% BL formula, then the LMS will xmax at ~45 mm one way...with maybe 10-12mm more to xmech...no BL loss out to 38-40 mm...we must remember that, with traditional motor topologies, BL begins it's decline as soon as the driver starts moving... I think the w7 driver uses a SGLC motor design (overhung), and though this has probably undergone rigorus FEA to maximize linearity, i'm sure it still exhibits the normal parabolic BL roll off, characteristic of the architecture... We also don't have an inductance value for the 13w7, so flux modulation distortion is a question mark, along with frequency response linearity... That said, i think the LMS 12 would offer some "similar" performance to the f113, provided it is implemented correctly...with a 4" VC and no BL loss at 38 mm, it should definitely set a new standard for extension and output from a 12" driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share Posted November 12, 2006 TC Sounds newer and more capabe top of the line woofers will ouperform the W7's in a few tests.Like you pointed they can move more air,remain more linear across the operating range. However the gains are not major enough to call for the world "OUTCLASS". I will tell you what outclases what. The f113 outclasses the RSW15 and Rt12d badly,as will a single ANADA outclass the above two Klipsch subs.A single Anada should be close to a GOTHAM in output @ 25Hz. Probably 5-6dB more capable @ 20Hz. With distortion limits set at 10%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Outclass,then let anyone here buld a sealed sub using the most capable 12" in the TC SOunds catalog and pit it against the f113,lets see who comes on top. [] Will be very close in the worst case for the W7.I have no doubt pfft, I am building a dual lms 5400 18 inch sealed. Who wants a inferior 12...... Inferior! You have CLEARLY no idea what you are talking about.The W7 is a world class woofer,and the GOTHAM and FATHOM subs world class subwoofers. Two of the most capable woofers are little compared with a design done by experts from JL Audio with a calibration system and amp made to match. [] I will buy two ANADA subs with the twin Crown amps.And then if I so desire the Velo 1812.Just for kicks and giggles. EDITED,yes I was a bit harsh,as harsh as a edgy low cost solid state driving the Jubilee. [:$] I love riling THEEAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 TC Sounds newer and more capabe top of the line woofers will ouperform the W7's in a few tests.Like you pointed they can move more air,remain more linear across the operating range. However the gains are not major enough to call for the world "OUTCLASS". I will tell you what outclases what. The f113 outclasses the RSW15 and Rt12d badly,as will a single ANADA outclass the above two Klipsch subs.A single Anada should be close to a GOTHAM in output @ 25Hz. Probably 5-6dB more capable @ 20Hz. With distortion limits set at 10%. remember the W7 is near end of life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share Posted November 12, 2006 End of its life,this is the best joke I've heard in a while. And so what? This end of life woofer outclasses out of anything Klipsch uses in its subs(the THX 12" woofer...not even close in displacement,the RSW15 woofer...please).This end of life woofer outperforms badly 99% of all woofers. Yeah end of life for sure.Then I do not want to know how its better ,higher performing replacement will fare against the outmatched competition. TC Sounds being the only real competition,the W7 outmatches all others.Yeah end of life,and what an end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 my single jl 10w7 in jl's bandpass box smoked my twin jl 12's very very badly. it is the best subwoofer I have ever heard, in a car stereo application. i cant imagine much would change indoors. I have heard the 12w7 compared to twin 15's, and i believe it. i wasent aware of the "end of life" (cycle?) but I am sure that anything JL replaces this with will be all the more impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share Posted November 12, 2006 Before some here start more garbage.I found a nice thread on AVS.I think unless you live under rocks you know Craigsub. Well here have a go and look at ONE JL f113 compares with ONE SVS PB/Plus 2 (a much much larger and ported sub using two quite capable woofers). www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=736243&page=7&pp=30 Look at the measured performance in a room. [] No commentsThe JL takes head on SVS large subs using dual woofers! A sealed and end of life unit. LOLNext time you post garbage like that beware.Not directed at you Clarence,just "end of life" posters.I know subs,I know my two rooms and the the "little" f113 kicks posterior,the posterior of many respected subs.And holds its own against large ported subs from ...SVS! Sure there is this $3200 price,a retail one.You know you can get some off,any dealer will do this unless you act like a clown and want an unrealistic price cut(dumping).I am glad I purchased my f133 and have the f112 and GOTHAM on the way. [] See that huge smile,damn right.This takes nothing from TC Sounds who I have above all others(including JL)as far as designing and manufacturing ubber subwoofers drivers.The LMS 5400 is THE woofer,and this is why I will get dual ANADA subs.It is the focus on "end of life" that is wrong here,and says not much.And lastly,yes JL and TC sounds top dogs are expensive,but those who these products are aimed at...could care less.And so do I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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