Heresy III Sibilance

[GregB]

Well, I'm past the two month mark with my new Heresy III's and they are sibilant and just not clean up top.

Anyone else experience this? What can be done?

Pertnering equipment is a Rotel integrated amp (fairly new, reputed to be clean) with a Rotel CD player, Mistubishi TV, and iPod as sources.

I have tried a few different speaker wires that I have and am currently running 12 gauge solid core from Home Depot biwired.

Any help greatly appreciated. I really like what else the speakers do, but if the sibilance/messy trebble persists, the Heresy's will have to go.

- GregB

[Daddy Dee]

Greg,

Congrats on your HIII's. They are fabulous speakers. Sorry to hear that your experiencing sibilance with them. Something is not right, for sure.

If you are experiencing the same thing with three different sources, the only other thing upstream is your integrated amp. I don't know if the issue is some evil synergistic drain or what. I'd suggest to run them straight out, now bi-wired until you track down the trouble. Wire would not be the issue, I'd think.

I'd suggest to arrange something to check out a different amp and CD player, while you're at it. I'm a lover of the Heritage sound, I'd ditch the upstream gear before the Heresy's.

The trouble is the same for both channel's right?

[BEC]

It is probably on the recording and being faithfully reproduced.

Bob

[Daddy Dee]

That's an interesting thought. I'm having trouble imagining that the Rotel gear wasn't working well with Heresy III's.

[sheltie dave]

Greg, what specific recordings do you hear this sibilance evidenced? There are a multitude of recordings I hear it on, with Simon and Garfunkel, Chicago, Dave Brubeck's "Time Out," and a number of female jazz singers who are hotly miked leading the way. With less efficient speakers, the sound may seem blurred, but with they Heresys, your ears perk up and you say what the xxxx was that? It is the sound of the mic input being compressed, so the sound takes on a very hard(clipped) edge.

[fini]

Oh, miked. I thought you wrote, "milked." That'd make anyone hiss.

[mas]

What mdeneen and Bob Crites said..... []

[GregB]

Its not just sibilance - the highs are just not as clean as I'm used to from other speakers (Naim, ProAc, Totem, Meadowlark, B&W) in nearly the same setup. The Rotel amp is fairly new and has not been used with all of the aforementioned speakers, but has shown no signs of not being clean up top.

It is both speakers - and with the grilles off and me close, I can hear the tweeter 'spitting' at me and not just with vocals.

I am currently using the 'tissue paper fix' - two layers, and it makes them listenable and, of course, downright enjoyable. I love the dynamics and, for the price, the bass is quite good too.

I'm not a believer in the "its in the recording" theory. Perhaps with some recordings yes - but it shouldn't be *annoying* and with many recordings and every source. Tele is quite raspy when it has never been before.

- GregB

[meagain]

I feel your pain. I have the same issues with my Klipschorns and I think mdeneen's post nailed it. Sibilance already on the recording is being 'accentuated'. I don't have tone controls on my main 2-ch gear, but have them on my AVR. It's tone controls don't cut it for me as it seems to get the job semi-done but sort of muddies or changes things in an unnatural or unpleasant way. Just plain 'off'. I had new crossovers made by DeanG which made most of it sound soooo much better, but I still had those highs leaping out and being 'piercy'. I then ended up buying a Behringer Digital EQ per the recommendations of

some here (about $200), and managed to make it more balanced/pleasant by chilling out those highs a tad. I put the project aside for a bit and need to get back to it, but I have faith this gadget is capable of getting things as perfect as they can for my room. That's my little story.

Hopefully, you can find a solution that doesn't involve spending money, but I do understand where you're coming from. It's irritating as heck isn't it?

[fini]

meagain,

Which model Behringer did you get?

[meagain]

Behringer DEQ-2496

[GregB]

I remember my Naim speakers (Allaes) took over 4 months to fully run in and sound clean up top. I had the tissue over the ScanSpeak tweeters in those for 5 months!

So...I will give the Heresy's 4+ months and reevaluate. They are OK with 2 layers of tissue, so we are enjoying them without pain at the moment. I do know that the highs are not clean and just masking nasty stuff is not where I would like to be, long term.

I remember the Totem speakers (Staffs) sounded amazingly clean and seemed to go on for ever up top, even with tele as source. Hard to shake that once you have heard it.

Its also hard to shake the great dynamics of the Heresy's once heard, hence I have a real problem here!

- GregB

[Deang]

How loud are you listening, and what kind of music do you listen to?

[ben.]

Well a Telecaster is about as demanding as it gets, I think.

Do the H3s have a bandpass filter on the squawker?

If all else fails, maybe try a ribbon tweeter...

[leok]

Sibilance is an unvoiced sound people make in speech. Such things as "s" "th" "f" "sh" "ch" are spoken as sibilance. Sibilant sounds are difficult for audio systems because they are tuned,or filtered noise (like pink noise, but more sharply filtered by the mouth) and they tend to expose system distortion. Intermodulation and crossover distortion characteristic of some transistor amplifiers causes sibilances to be exaggerated and rather unpleasant. Feedback, in tube amps, if not done well can also exaggerate sibilances. Efficient speakers such as those made by Klipsch will expose the low power distortion of an amp. Sibilant sounds are some of the lowest power sounds produced by an audio system and we are very sensitive to distortion of those sounds. I doubt the problem is the speakers .. but it can be anything and everything upstream.

Leo

[DrWho]

Sounds to me to be a room related issue...especially if you're noticing this with other speakers.

As far as putting your ears up to the tweeter - that's how it's supposed to sound. Probably not as extreme as you're noticing, but it takes a little time for the waveform from a horn to "settle in" for lack of a better way to put it. Dome tweeters will do this sooner. In fact, there is a point in front of any speaker where you won't hear anything at all...and in the transition region things are going to sound wierd.

Generally, I would point to the amplifier and source material when you're noticing things like this. But you're pretty adament that it isn't your reciever. While I believe you, I just wanted to propose that both your speakers and amplification could be working perfectly, yet together achieve a nasty sound. This happens when the complex load impedance presented by the speaker doesn't "jive" with the complex output impedance of the amplifier. Loudspeaker drivers by themselves don't have a flat impedance, and when you throw on a horn it gets even more complicated. It's quite possible that the output impedance of your amplifier doesn't like the impedance presented by your speakers. And if you're noticing differences between wire, then there is even more reason to believe this. (when there is a significant impedance mismatch, the effects of the transmission line (wire) become much more significant).

There are two solutions to the impedance issue. 1) Implement a constant impedance network. or 2) introduce a new reciever. Since neither approach is really that cheap, I would recommend borrowing different amplifiers to see if you resolve your issue. If you don't, then the issue is probably the room. And worst case scenario you get to play with gear. I bet if you talked to your local audio dealer about your issue that he might let you try some stuff at home (in hopes of getting you to purchase it).

Do you have any kind of measuring equipment available to your disposal?

[DrWho]

I almost forgot...how big is your room and how do you have things furnished? Any windows in the room or other similar surfaces?

[leok]

What speakers were you using before? How do they compare? There is the off chance the Heresys need more break in, but nobody's ever mentioned distorted sibilance as a Heresy problem (new or aged).

A line power filter might be very helpful. The Belkin F5980-TEL is inexpensive (office supply stores for computer equipment) and effective. If you have an RF interference issue it could impact the sound in the way you describe

Leo.

[Al Klappenberger]

I suggest you compare your speaker to a top notch set of headphones. If the source is a CD player, plug the headphones directly into that. siblance is usually part of the recording and is real. Some artists have it bad! Sara Briteman, for example.

AL K.

[leok]

I have found that once the problems that cause sibilance distortion are removed from a system, most recordings don't exhibit the behavior. Sibilance distortion is virtually eliminated from both of my systems. It does show up on the occasional recording and I don't know if the recordings actually contain the distortion that I hear or they are simply sufficiently difficult to correctly reproduce that residual distortion in my system is the true root cause.

Leo