Klipschorn bass response

[DrWho]

Are you referring to Paul's Khorns at the farmhouse? Or from the Demo.

Man, I hope your not talking about the demo.....All the speakers were harsh? man...you are tough.

I'm

not good at being all polite and politically correct like the rest of

you more experienced folks so I'll just be blunt and no hard feelings?

[A]

I was actually referring to the dedicated listening room next

to the main offices where we all got to hear comparisons between the

Cornwall III, KHorn, Lascala 2, Heresy 3 and RF-83. Trey actually put

me in charge of setting up that room with the help of a fellow temp

they had hired for the summer. Of course, Mark Kaufman came through the

next day to make sure all the cables were laid out all perty like,

trying to adhere to every insane audiophile rule [] I got in a lot of

listening time and I would argue that I've got a better sound in my

humble college apartment. [] It had nothing to do with the $40,000

worth of equipment in that room, but the room itself. All of the walls

were hard and bare and they had the speakers oriented wrong relative to

the cieling. How could you not notice the huge slapback off the rear

section of the sloped cieling? It made for some very unnatural imaging.

Granted, when more people got loaded into the room, a lot of the

lower-mid resonances went away, but there was still that nasty slapback

happening between the front and rear wall as well as the side walls. If

you were ever in the room when Trey unleashed the full fury of 50W into

the Khorns, then you would easily hear the acoustical issues - they're

still there at lower levels, just your ears aren't bleeding. Mark tried

to add some acoustical treatment to the room, but there is no way that

treating 1% of the walls is going to make a significant difference. The

chairs in the room were bolted to the floor, but I remember there being

some conversation about rotating the room 90 degrees, which would

involve tearing out all the old chairs. In honor of PWK (and Dr.

Boner), I was surprised that no curved masonite panels were offered as

an alternative - that would have gone very far in reducing the ping.

So should I get onto the Farmhouse listening environments? []

I could pretty much sum everything up to being completely unlistenable

there - I know a lot of you hardcore rockers were having a good time

and sometimes I wish I could join in and enjoy the music more than the

equipment...but to be honest, I had more fun listening to music on the

PA setup outside (not to mention it didn't require bleeding ears). One

thing I'm still kicking myself in the butt for is not proposing to give

the dbb's a listen outside. I really enjoy the one song I put on to

listen to, but it's a very thick recording and you lose a lot of the

intricacies in such an environment, but at least the bass was still

there [Y]

I'm sorry if I'm tough, but I would certainly hope

everyone here is enjoying playback in their homes far superior to any

of the demonstrations we get to hear at Klipsch. For what it's worth, I

place no blame whatosever on Klipsch for the rooms they provide for us

to listen to their speakers. In fact, I think one of the greatest

attributes of horns is that their narrower more controlled directivity

is infinetly more compatible with a wider range of listening

environments. Did things sound good? Heck ya - but not $40k awesome...

Now I know somewhere mixed in all of this is a ton of subjectivity and

I listen to different music than most all y'alls, but I think most of

my observations should be pretty generic...? Sometimes I think I'm

going crazy - that's when I'll go off and actually enjoy some music []

[seti]

but I'm beginning to think it's more to do with my source material not being suitable for them...

Not suitable for Khorns or listening in general?

[]

[]

Just the khorns [6] I gotta have that last octave below 40Hz...at least with cornwalls, I get some distortion that represents them lower notes [6] 

What do you primarily listen to ?

Everyone has their preference. I love them folded bass horns : )> 

[DrWho]

but I'm beginning to think it's more to do with my source material not being suitable for them...

Not suitable for Khorns or listening in general?

[]

[]

Just the khorns [6] I gotta have that last octave below 40Hz...at least with cornwalls, I get some distortion that represents them lower notes [6]

What do you primarily listen to ?

Everyone has their preference. I love them folded bass horns : )>

I think you could sum up most of it under "New Age". But I like a lot of stuff: Loreena McKennit, Glenn Hughes, Nightwish, Massive Attack, Enya, Bach...

Here's a sample file of the "one song" I was referring to...it's probably too long, but I really love the cello solo. Y'all can let me know if 5.8MB is too large.

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/mebentz2/10%20-%20Cirque%20Du%20Soleil%20-%20Extrait%20De%20Dralion%20-%20Stella%20Errans.mp3

If that link doesn't work, then you can just go here:

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/mebentz2/

and click on "10 - Cirque Du Soleil - Extrait De Dralion - Stella Errans.mp3"

[seti]

Loreena and Enya I know are very well recorded but I am having trouble finding some original Bach recordings. I also like alot of the Dead Can Dance albumss but not the songs that the guy contributes on as his voice irritates me. I think they are on the 4AD record label which also released This Mortal Coil and Cocteau Twins. I'll check out that song later after I burn it to cd. I also get into alot of eastern recordings but right now I am hooked on Raymond Scott Powerhouse : )

[DrWho]

ooo, Dead Can Dance [Y] I wish I had more experience with them...just got a few mp3's from the last time I was doing some music hunting. (I download mp3's to get a sample and then purchase albums containing the music I enjoy). Got any album recommendations? I don't dig the guy singer either. I like a lot of the eastern stuff too, but moreso when it's combined with metal or rock. That's really hard to find though and I can't think of any bands that do just that.

As far as Bach, or any of the classical music I enjoy...I'm not sure what entails an original recording, but I really enjoy all of the stuff conducted by Sir Georg Solti with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra...I can't remember the record label off the top of my head, but all the discs looks the same and have "London" surrounded by a red rectangle in the title...not the absolute best recordings in the world, but I get distracted more by the pompous arrogance from the musicians (wow, that's probably a really blunt way to describe that for someone that doesn't know where I'm coming from). I really gotta be in the right mood for classical - and I'm rarely in it these days. It used to be the only thing I would listen to.

I've never heard of Raymond Scott Powerhouse, but after some googling he's the guy from Gorillaz?

[seti]

ooo, Dead Can Dance [Y] I wish I had more experience with them...just got a few mp3's from the last time I was doing some music hunting. (I download mp3's to get a sample and then purchase albums containing the music I enjoy). Got any album recommendations? I don't dig the guy singer either. I like a lot of the eastern stuff too, but moreso when it's combined with metal or rock. That's really hard to find though and I can't think of any bands that do just that.

As far as Bach, or any of the classical music I enjoy...I'm not sure what entails an original recording, but I really enjoy all of the stuff conducted by Sir Georg Solti with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra...I can't remember the record label off the top of my head, but all the discs looks the same and have "London" surrounded by a red rectangle in the title...not the absolute best recordings in the world, but I get distracted more by the pompous arrogance from the musicians (wow, that's probably a really blunt way to describe that for someone that doesn't know where I'm coming from). I really gotta be in the right mood for classical - and I'm rarely in it these days. It used to be the only thing I would listen to.

I've never heard of Raymond Scott Powerhouse, but after some googling he's the guy from Gorillaz?

Actually I went through all the Dead Can Dance CDs I own and compiled two that did not have that guy singing. I would recommend AION and Serpent's Egg. If you like them do what I did or you will do alot of disk skiping.

I was being a smartass with the Bach comment. Can't argue with Bach : ) fun.

Actually I bet almost everyone on the forum knows Raymond Scott(1908-1984) they just don't know it as he composed songs for cartoons in the early days and was one of the early inovators of elecctronic instruments up there with Bob Moog.

http://raymondscott.com/MENsndf.html

[garyrc]

Roy,

I'm glad you posted the Klipschorn standard LF graph.

Now, how about the midrange and treble?

We have seen the ones from the late '80s that Klipsch used to include on the spec sheets, and the ones PWK published in the 70s and before. I, for one, would be interested to see how the AK-4 models look different, while expecting only minor changes.

We understand that Klipsch's sweeps are not going to be as flat looking as the 1/3 octave noise plots some others run. Wasn't one of Klipsch's Laws that "All speakers measured with noise sources will be flat?" We have seen so many DIYs' plots reproduced here that we won't be shocked! We can take it! We realize that frequency response is not everything, and many of us were attracted to horns by the clean, crisp, effortless sound, rather than FR response. You guys are the ones with the revolving door, corner containing, anechoic chamber, and the great measuring gear, I sure would like to see how a modern Klipschorn measures in there in the midrange and treble!

[bodcaw boy]

Roy,

I'm glad you posted the Klipschorn standard LF graph.

Now, how about the midrange and treble?

We have seen the ones from the late '80s that Klipsch used to include on the spec sheets, and the ones PWK published in the 70s and before. I, for one, would be interested to see how the AK-4 models look different, while expecting only minor changes.

We understand that Klipsch's sweeps are not going to be as flat looking as the 1/3 octave noise plots some others run. Wasn't one of Klipsch's Laws that "All speakers measured with noise sources will be flat?" We have seen so many DIYs' plots reproduced here that we won't be shocked! We can take it! We realize that frequency response is not everything, and many of us were attracted to horns by the clean, crisp, effortless sound, rather than FR response. You guys are the ones with the revolving door, corner containing, anechoic chamber, and the great measuring gear, I sure would like to see how a modern Klipschorn measures in there in the midrange and treble!

we'll see what we can do....

roy delgado

[JohnA]

I'm interested in this thread to see what I might be able to do to my

Type AAs to lower the 200 Hz hump La Scalas have. A little data

about the AL-4 would be nice.

[bodcaw boy]

I'm interested in this thread to see what I might be able to do to my Type AAs to lower the 200 Hz hump La Scalas have. A little data about the AL-4 would be nice.

with cheese?

roy delgado

[3dzapper]

An off topic note:

John I have been staring at your new avatar. Love it!

Imagine that valve train at the 22000 RPS of a modern F1 powerplant.

Carry on.{]

[ZAKO]

Poor Roy....His knees are beginning to buckle under the burden..........Roy dont forget to peel my graps !!!!

[djk]

"Imagine that valve train at the 22000 RPS of a modern F1 powerplant."

The Ducati desmo valve trains ran at 18,000 RPM in some of their models. I think the main RPM limitation is the flame-front of the fuel.

[JohnA]

An off topic note:

John I have been staring at your new avatar. Love it!

Imagine that valve train at the 22000 RPS of a modern F1 powerplant.

Carry on.{]

Your

wish is my command! This is the Desmosedici V-4 MotoGP

bike. It peaks about 22k RPM. No one admits to power

output, but the D16 GP6 reportedly makes 220 HP from 990cc. Its

bore and stroke are said to be very similar to F1 spec.

Save the file to your computer and delete the ".txt" to hear it.

[JohnA]

I'm interested

in this thread to see what I might be able to do to my Type AAs to

lower the 200 Hz hump La Scalas have. A little data about the

AL-4 would be nice.

with cheese?

roy delgado

Now who's a pain?! []

Sorry Roy. I like the sound on my speakers, but I like to

experiment, too. We understand if you aren't able to

release this stuff.

[JohnA]

I'm interested

in this thread to see what I might be able to do to my Type AAs to

lower the 200 Hz hump La Scalas have. A little data about the

AL-4 would be nice.

with cheese?

roy delgado

Now who's a pain?! []

Sorry Roy. I like the sound on my speakers, but I like to

experiment, too. We understand if you aren't able to

release this stuff.

[JohnA]

I'm interested

in this thread to see what I might be able to do to my Type AAs to

lower the 200 Hz hump La Scalas have. A little data about the

AL-4 would be nice.

with cheese?

roy delgado

Now who's a pain?! []

Sorry Roy. I like the sound on my speakers, but I like to

experiment, too. We understand if you aren't able to

release this stuff.

[JohnA]

I'm interested

in this thread to see what I might be able to do to my Type AAs to

lower the 200 Hz hump La Scalas have. A little data about the

AL-4 would be nice.

with cheese?

roy delgado

Now who's a pain?! []

Sorry Roy. I like the sound on my speakers, but I like to

experiment, too. We understand if you aren't able to

release this stuff.

[bodcaw boy]

I'm interested in this thread to see what I might be able to do to my Type AAs to lower the 200 Hz hump La Scalas have. A little data about the AL-4 would be nice.

with cheese?

roy delgado

Now who's a pain?! [] Sorry Roy. I like the sound on my speakers, but I like to experiment, too. We understand if you aren't able to release this stuff.

wow! quadruple decker!! i will see what i can do......

roy delgado

[John Warren]

Also, what were the measurement parameters for the AK-4 LF response plotted earlier (input power, distance, etc)?

jw