Deang Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 your're right but i thought that by now someone had reverse engineered to get a schematic like mr bob! Well, I know I did! However, although many of us typically pass things between each other in email, we don't post some things out of courtesy to Klipsch. How bad are the problems (summing error, phase, etc) if one were to use the AK-4 lf filter with any of the older squawker/tweeter sections? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Thanks for reinserting those earlier plots John. Earlier in the thread, this exchange: John: Based on your response, the AK-4 has some frequency compensation circuits built into it. Roy: Yes it does. John: I'd be interested in seeing the topology (and yes I know I could "buy" a pair but what fun would that be!) and I am also aware that you can't reveal the information. Roy: The schematic is known and been published here, and in fact, mr crites, if he is on tonight, can supply it. if not, i can get it somewhere. John: Is there any possibility that you could show us the measured frequency response of the bass horn with the AK-4 filter branch? Roy: i am sure we got that somewhere. Roy, I'm pretty sure the AK-4 schematic has never been published before, and the general rule has been that Klipsch doesn't give out schematics on current production loudspeakers. Does that mean there is an AK-5. dean, your're right but i thought that by now someone had reverse engineered to get a schematic like mr bob! i know that someone, speakerfritz or jc i believe, had done the al4 which is very close to the ak4 (same topology). roy delgado Wasn't me. I haven't the clue of their schematic and also have no experience listening to them. Maybe I can hear them at Indy. When I was at Hope this past year, I missed the demo part of the tour. That part of the tour was close to the end of the afternoon and my Beer "low light" came on. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Speakerfritz picked up some AL-4's off of eBay I believe, but I don't ever recall him saying he reversed engineered and made a schematic. He's posted every other schematic about a dozen times, but I've never seen him post that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 That part of the tour was close to the end of the afternoon and my Beer "low light" came on. Probably just a faulty sending switch... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Roy- That looks very very nice! I have to be honest with you, why your company doesn't advertise this sort of thing is a mystery (to me anyway). I'd have a webpage devoted to the upgrade. On the page one can buy the network upgrade or the network + driver upgrade. The page would show the plots of the before and after responses, etc. Yes, it would be a bit technical but it's the sort of thing that Klipschorn owners, world over, would really dig. jw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Dufus me. I just realized the PDF Roy posted. So this is the Khorn LF section in a corner with the AK-4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Is the AK-4 the first Khorn network to have EQ in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Is the AK-4 the first Khorn network to have EQ in it? Oh no. the AK/AL/AB was the beginning of it. That would have been 1981. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Mark- Yes, this is the only network I 've seen that has frequency compensation built in. I would like to see a plot of the finished product operating across all three drivers. jw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Is the AK-4 the first Khorn network to have EQ in it? almost every network that i have seen klipsch use had some sort of eqing in it. that is almost required if you use horns and that is why paul called them "balancing networks". they were crossover/equalizer circuits. roy delgado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 I stand corrected (Roy, John A.) I do however consider the earlier networks "tweaks" to a basic topology. The AK-4 is no tweak, it's a major departure. Perhaps the question should have been...Is the AK-4 the first Klipschorn network to have "extensive" correction in it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 ...so what is your conclusion of the AK-4 network and how does it compare (in your opinion) sonically to the other stock networks as well as the hot rodded/tweaked networks of others??? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Bill- Do you really think how it "sounds" is important?!! Seriously, I don't know, I haven't heard it. But others have and they will comment. If a flat amplitude response is important to you, this net is going in the right direction based on what little we've seen so far. jw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Did the Khorns we heard in Hope have the AK-4? Apart from the lack of subsonic material and the wicked harshness in the top end I thought they sound rather good. I'm not typically a fan of khorns though, but I'm beginning to think it's more to do with my source material not being suitable for them... As far as the harshness, I have no doubt it was the room as it showed up on all of the speakers we listened to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 but I'm beginning to think it's more to do with my source material not being suitable for them... Not suitable for Khorns or listening in general? [] [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Mike. Are you referring to Paul's Khorns at the farmhouse? Or from the Demo. Man, I hope your not talking about the demo.....All the speakers were harsh? man...you are tough. As far as Pual's Khorns at the farmhouse, they were AK2 I believe and were transformed to BEC's 1st order networks with a bandpass at 3500Hz and swap out with his tweeters. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 DrWho, I really hope your just talking about the big echo room at Hope which was very harsh. I couldn't stand to be in that big room. YUCK. The demo room was killer and the small room in hope with the KHorns and MC30s sounded great. I am craving MC30s and khorns to this day from that single experience. Harsh is not a word I would use to describe them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Yes. I agree with what Seti just said. My dbb's, Seadogs Cornwalls, and Paul's Khorns all sounded lousy in the big farmhouse room. I was glad to get my dbb's back into my house to remind myself how they really sounded. The Khorns with first order networks in the Small room was a treat with the TT, BAT and MC30's. The problem with that room was that it was the size of a Dorm room. I missed the demo at Hope. Weren't the Khorns there with AK-4's. Also, what is in the La Scala 2....AL-3's still or is there an AL-4? jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 but I'm beginning to think it's more to do with my source material not being suitable for them... Not suitable for Khorns or listening in general? [] [] Just the khorns [6] I gotta have that last octave below 40Hz...at least with cornwalls, I get some distortion that represents them lower notes [6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Yes. I agree with what Seti just said. My dbb's, Seadogs Cornwalls, and Paul's Khorns all sounded lousy in the big farmhouse room. I was glad to get my dbb's back into my house to remind myself how they really sounded. The Khorns with first order networks in the Small room was a treat with the TT, BAT and MC30's. The problem with that room was that it was the size of a Dorm room. I missed the demo at Hope. Weren't the Khorns there with AK-4's. Also, what is in the La Scala 2....AL-3's still or is there an AL-4? jc JC, I'd love to hear those hugemongus dbb's in a better setting as that room did no speakers justice. As for the small room I was amazed at how well they sounded in what would could have been a large closet. It really made me reconsider the what I thought about the khorn. Just give them good corners. After I get my amp shuffle situated I will be seriously hunting down a pair of khorns. I'm not sure what were in the khorns or scalas they were the current lineup though. The gear they used to demo to us was a suprise Cayin KT88 based integrated amp and Cayin tubed CDP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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