Klipsch dealer story (from 6moons)

[John Potis]

Hi Loud,

You're a lot like me when it comes to subwoofers. Once you own a good one (or two) it makes buying speakers and placing them in the room much easier. The 'limited' bass of the La Scala IIs may work for me. Sometimes there's just no predicting how a speaker will perform in the bass within a given room. Take the deep bass out of the speaker and it takes the worries out of the purchase. And then you can dial it in any way you like it.

My dealer friend told me once that very often it was the case that his favorite speakers in the house were the hardest to sell. He listed some very good speakers that they just couldn't sell. Often retail is a business just like any other and you have to stock what is hot on the market no matter what's pulling on your own heartstrings. I won't say what line it is, but this dealer carries a line that they personally think used to be a joke (they seem to have gotten better, though I haven't heard them) but they got rave reviews and people would come in pre-sold on them. It was either give them what they want or watch them go elsewhere.

I've got stacks of hifi magazines going back 20+ years and I don't have a single review of a Heritage product. Kinda sad! There is Sam Tellig's review in Stereophile but the Stereophile website doesn't have any of Sam's writing on it so only Stereophile magazine subscribers will know about it unless they trip upon it while visiting the Klipsch site, which is the opposite of the way it should be. It's supposed to be the reviews sending people to the manufacturer's site, not the other way around! Yet another reason I'd love to review a pair.

Best,

JP

[John Potis]

Hi maxg,

Sorry about the coffee.

You're right. Years ago I was looking at a supercharged Ford Thuderbird (OK, it was many years ago) and the sales guy kept telling me it was turbocharged-- didn't know the difference. Seems car dealers have a similar problem. Only difference is that people NEED a car and will buy them somewhere. The same can't be said about speaker buyers and a potential audiophile lost is one, quite possibly, never regained.

I've noticed the popularity of the Juicy Music products, which is pretty cool. I would imagine that I've got what it takes to do right by a pair of La Scala IIs, though. I've got an Art Audio 845 SET producing 16 watts (the Carissa), I've got a pair of Canary CA 330s-- 300B push-pull amps producing 26 watts, I've got a Musical Fidelity A5 integrated and a pair of Bel Canto e.One Reference 1000 monos for those days when I need to rid the house of unwanted vermin (aka inlaws). I've got on loan a pair of Opera's Cyber 211 amps that I'm betting will be unbelievable with them. Though one never really knows.

Best,

JP

[John Potis]

Hey jbsl,

In point of fact, this chain of stores had just become a Klipsch dealer. Of the chain, this is the only store to have gotten in a piece from the Heritage series.

Your point is well taken, though. Maybe this sales guy is an extremely quick learner and has already realized the futility of it all. :-)

Naaa. I think he was just coming off a long weekend of home theater sales induced hysteria.

Best,

JP

[seti]

Hi maxg,

Sorry about the coffee.

You're right. Years ago I was looking at a supercharged Ford Thuderbird (OK, it was many years ago) and the sales guy kept telling me it was turbocharged-- didn't know the difference. Seems car dealers have a similar problem. Only difference is that people NEED a car and will buy them somewhere. The same can't be said about speaker buyers and a potential audiophile lost is one, quite possibly, never regained.

I've noticed the popularity of the Juicy Music products, which is pretty cool. I would imagine that I've got what it takes to do right by a pair of La Scala IIs, though. I've got an Art Audio 845 SET producing 16 watts (the Carissa), I've got a pair of Canary CA 330s-- 300B push-pull amps producing 26 watts, I've got a Musical Fidelity A5 integrated and a pair of Bel Canto e.One Reference 1000 monos for those days when I need to rid the house of unwanted vermin (aka inlaws). I've got on loan a pair of Opera's Cyber 211 amps that I'm betting will be unbelievable with them. Though one never really knows.

Best,

JP

It sounds like you have appropriate amplification out the wazooo. High powered 845 or 211 SET is on my want list. I love the Canary Audio line as thehigh build quality is stunning. I had the CA-300 but am wanting to venture into the CA-MK II for my next purchase. The 300B is one of my favorites.

[seti]

Hi maxg,

Sorry about the coffee.

You're right. Years ago I was looking at a supercharged Ford Thuderbird (OK, it was many years ago) and the sales guy kept telling me it was turbocharged-- didn't know the difference. Seems car dealers have a similar problem. Only difference is that people NEED a car and will buy them somewhere. The same can't be said about speaker buyers and a potential audiophile lost is one, quite possibly, never regained.

I've noticed the popularity of the Juicy Music products, which is pretty cool. I would imagine that I've got what it takes to do right by a pair of La Scala IIs, though. I've got an Art Audio 845 SET producing 16 watts (the Carissa), I've got a pair of Canary CA 330s-- 300B push-pull amps producing 26 watts, I've got a Musical Fidelity A5 integrated and a pair of Bel Canto e.One Reference 1000 monos for those days when I need to rid the house of unwanted vermin (aka inlaws). I've got on loan a pair of Opera's Cyber 211 amps that I'm betting will be unbelievable with them. Though one never really knows.

Best,

JP

It sounds like you have appropriate amplification out the wazooo. High powered 845 or 211 SET is on my want list. I love the Canary Audio line as the high build quality is stunning. I had the CA-300 but am wanting to venture into the CA-MK II for my next purchase. The 300B is one of my favorites.

[colterphoto1]

I have updated our in-house listing of active Heritage dealers and will query our sales staff for more.

[seti]

Hi maxg,

Sorry about the coffee.

You're right. Years ago I was looking at a supercharged Ford Thuderbird (OK, it was many years ago) and the sales guy kept telling me it was turbocharged-- didn't know the difference. Seems car dealers have a similar problem. Only difference is that people NEED a car and will buy them somewhere. The same can't be said about speaker buyers and a potential audiophile lost is one, quite possibly, never regained.

I've noticed the popularity of the Juicy Music products, which is pretty cool. I would imagine that I've got what it takes to do right by a pair of La Scala IIs, though. I've got an Art Audio 845 SET producing 16 watts (the Carissa), I've got a pair of Canary CA 330s-- 300B push-pull amps producing 26 watts, I've got a Musical Fidelity A5 integrated and a pair of Bel Canto e.One Reference 1000 monos for those days when I need to rid the house of unwanted vermin (aka inlaws). I've got on loan a pair of Opera's Cyber 211 amps that I'm betting will be unbelievable with them. Though one never really knows.

Best,

JP

It sounds like you have appropriate amplification out the wazooo. High powered 845 or 211 SET is on my want list. I love the Canary Audio line as the high build quality is stunning. I had the CA-300 but am wanting to venture into the CA-MK II for my next purchase. The 300B is one of my favorites.

[wstrickland1]

So John, let's go ahead and get this out of the way early. What do you think of the Bose 901 IV?

[John Potis]

Coytee,

Any verifiable friend of mine knows that my name is pronounced "Otis", with a 'p' and that you've been right all along. They know this because they also know that if and when I'm ever blessed with a son (thusfar I have only daughters) he will, in fact, be called Otis Potis. All my real friends have known that for years and years... which may in fact be why my wife has only given me girls.

Best,

JP

[sfogg]

Hey John,

"I would imagine that I've got what it takes to do right by a pair of La
Scala IIs, though. I've got an Art Audio 845 SET producing 16 watts
(the Carissa), I've got a pair of Canary CA 330s-- 300B push-pull amps
producing 26 watts, I've got a Musical Fidelity A5 integrated and a
pair of Bel Canto e.One Reference 1000 monos for those days when I need
to rid the house of unwanted vermin (aka inlaws). I've got on loan a
pair of Opera's Cyber 211 amps that I'm betting will be unbelievable
with them."

With that many SETs what would Rochlin say???

When you hit this efficiency level another important point to watch out for is simply noise levels of the various equipment. Stuff that will be dead quiet on 'regular' speakers can end up being noisy on the horns.

I haven't heard the LASIIs but I run modded two-way LAS up front in my setup. What do you have kicking around for subs? You are probably going to like a pair running with the horns if possible. A pair of Titan's worked well with the LAS if used within their output limits.

Have fun,

Shawn

[John Potis]

Hi kev313,

The road tour thing sounds like an excellent idea. As a chef I do work most weekends but if it could be arranged, it sounds like a lot of fun.

That's some high-brow stable mates you got there!

Best,

JP

[John Potis]

Hi Seti,

Thanks for the links. I've actually already seen them and yes, it's really cool!

Best,

JP

[wallflower]

Hi John,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Welcome to the forum!!

I'd like to dispel the almost urban legend on this forum about the lack of bass response with La Scalas. I would postulate that most people that have determined La Scalas are insufficient in terms of bass response have done so because either A. they weren't using enough OR the right kind of power to get the most out of the La Scala or B. they didn't have the speakers properly setup or C. they weren't using an effective front end or D. ALL OF THE ABOVE.

The bottom line is, with enough of the right kind of power, proper setup and a good front end, the La Scala will provide a VERY lifelike presentation of music, including the bass response. The only place you might notice a deficiency in bass response is if you played a lot of pipe organ music, hip hop or HT. In those cases you might want to augment the La Scala with a subwoofer. But for most normal music with typical instruments, the La Scala is a fine speaker and will produce the LIVE sound that Klipsch Heritage is known for and will do it without making the listener feel as though they're missing something. I'm sure you'd love the La Scala II.

Cheers!

Jeff

[thebes]

Welcome aboard. You've got many choices in the DC area for listening to Heritage on Forum member systems. In addition to the 3 already mentioned I have sets of Cornwalls and Heresy using various combinations of SS and tubes (including the rare but nice Marantz 7T and 8B combo) and in Bethesda we have LarryC who has a killer big monster all-tube Khorn setup tweaked for classical music. I do believe we have another pair of LaScalas down Richmond way owned by CustomSteve.

Just say the word and one or all of us will fix you up.

[Chicago_Pete]

Otis?

[Islander]

When you hit this efficiency level another important point to watch out for is simply noise levels of the various equipment. Stuff that will be dead quiet on 'regular' speakers can end up being noisy on the horns.

I haven't heard the LASIIs but I run modded two-way LAS up front in my setup. What do you have kicking around for subs? You are probably going to like a pair running with the horns if possible. A pair of Titan's worked well with the LAS if used within their output limits.

I've run into this very issue just recently. A Class D type amp that was reviewed by Stereophile as having "inky-black silence" and being "subjectively quiet, producing some of the 'blackest' backdrops I've heard" puts out a noticeable buzz throught the La Scalas, but the same buzz is almost totally inaudible through a 91 dB sensitive Paradigm speaker. It's not enough to make the system unlistenable, but it is something I'm trying to get rid of somehow.

However, the amp improved the transparency of the sound and the 500Wpc does lend a seductive authority to the sound, even at low volumes with acoustic music, so I think it's a keeper.

What did you find bad about the Klipschorns powered by the 400Wpc McIntosh, or did the listening room make it impossible to tell?

[sfogg]

"I've run into this very issue just recently. A Class D type amp that was reviewed by Stereophile as having "inky-black silence" and being "subjectively quiet, producing some of the 'blackest' backdrops I've heard" puts out a noticeable buzz throught the La Scalas, but the same buzz is almost totally inaudible through a 91 dB sensitive Paradigm speaker. It's not enough to make the system unlistenable, but it is something I'm trying to get rid of somehow."

If it is a buzz it might be a touch of a ground loop. Even the slightest ground loop will be very audible on the horns. You might want to check that out and see if it can be quieted down. Easy way to check that is to turn the amp off, unplug the inputs to the amp and turn it back on. If you still have the buzz it is internal to the amp itself, if the buzz goes away you might check into a ground loop and/or adding attenuation to the input of the amp if your pre-amp is a little noisy.

On the tripaths I am running they didn't have any buzz but their hiss level was higher then I would like when I started bi/triamping and running full efficiency directly to the drivers. I ended up changing their operating parameters to lower their own internal hiss.

Shawn

[Islander]

Hi Loud,

You're a lot like me when it comes to subwoofers. Once you own a good one (or two) it makes buying speakers and placing them in the room much easier. The 'limited' bass of the La Scala IIs may work for me. Sometimes there's just no predicting how a speaker will perform in the bass within a given room. Take the deep bass out of the speaker and it takes the worries out of the purchase. And then you can dial it in any way you like it.

That's an interesting take on using subwoofers and it makes sense. The sub can be set to integrate with your main speakers and your room and placed independently of the main speakers for best results. Some people may find that La Scalas have plenty of bass, but adding a sub allows my system to give fairly flat response down to 25-30 Hz, something the Scalas won't do by themselves, although the La Scala IIs have a stiffer bass bin and are said to have more solid bass response.

[Islander]

"I've run into this very issue just recently. A Class D type amp that was reviewed by Stereophile as having "inky-black silence" and being "subjectively quiet, producing some of the 'blackest' backdrops I've heard" puts out a noticeable buzz throught the La Scalas, but the same buzz is almost totally inaudible through a 91 dB sensitive Paradigm speaker. It's not enough to make the system unlistenable, but it is something I'm trying to get rid of somehow."

If it is a buzz it might be a touch of a ground loop. Even the slightest ground loop will be very audible on the horns. You might want to check that out and see if it can be quieted down. Easy way to check that is to turn the amp off, unplug the inputs to the amp and turn it back on. If you still have the buzz it is internal to the amp itself, if the buzz goes away you might check into a ground loop and/or adding attenuation to the input of the amp if your pre-amp is a little noisy.

On the tripaths I am running they didn't have any buzz but their hiss level was higher then I would like when I started bi/triamping and running full efficiency directly to the drivers. I ended up changing their operating parameters to lower their own internal hiss.

Shawn

Thanks for the tips, Shawn. I've tried every variation on wall outlets, circuits, interconnects and so on and the only time the buzz disappears is when the interconnect is unhooked from the amp's inputs. The pre-amp is a receiver and is very quiet when driving its own power amp. The local dealer is interested to see the amp and has offered to hook it up to some of their equipment to see what may be causing the noise and whether something can be done.

So how were you able to reduce the hiss on your tripath amps? I haven't seen any "hiss-related" adjustments on my gear.

[John Potis]

Good golly! Shawn! Nobody warned me that you'd be here! Well, that
seals it! When I need to hear some speakers, I'm coming to your place!
Of course, when I get there you can jump out the back door and pretend
you're not there!

I was relieved to hear that someone was using Canary amps. They can be a little noisy. But the Art Audio is silent as are the Cyber 211s.

I've got a pair of little Velodyne SPL800 subs. When I reviewed some Maggies Wendell Diller approached Velodyne about having them sent because they blend with Maggies so well. If they're fast enough for Maggies, they should hang with Klipsch. I've also got a pair of Gallo subs, they're very much similar to the Gallo in sound but they go a little lower. They also allow continuous adjustment of phase which comes in handy when mating them with horns.

Are you listening to Klipsch these days?

"With that many SETs what would Rochlin say??? ;)"

I'm sorry... who is that?

Best,

JP