Old78s Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Hey all, I picked up a pristine set of early 1980s LaScalas this morning and replaced the Heresys in my living room. I was fairly disappointed by the sound quality of the LaScalas - especially after reading all the posts and recommendations in this forum. The LaScalas seem somewhat cold, with a shrill edge at higher frequencies that can be fairly annoying. My Heresys have a nice warm rich tone that sounds great with my records at lower volume levels (see the "Big horns, low volumes..." thread). It almost seems as if the LaScalas suck the life out of some of my favorite records - records that sound beautiful and alive on my Heresys. It is with great sadness I stared at my LaScalas while I played one of my favorite John Lee Hooker 78s. This particular record has such a life-like sound I can usually smell John Lee's BO - but it sounded dead and CD-like through the LaScalas. There is a loss of musical quality somewhere in the lower mid-range I think. Obviously there must be a problem here, because it seems to be a unanimous opinion on this forum that LaScalas should sound superior to Heresys. One obvious problem could be the old crossovers, but can the AL crossovers be THAT bad? When I first got my Heresys I recapped the E crossovers and did an A-B test on the original vs. recapped, and the improvement in sound was like going from slightly muddy to more clear. It was a nice improvement but it wasn't incredibly significiant. Muddiness is definitely not the problem with these LaScalas, which makes me a little hesitant about investing time and money into fooling around with the crossovers. I guess my question is: did I pick the wrong kind of speakers for my listening habits, or can upgrading the crossovers truly improve the sound quality of these speakers in a significant way? How would those of you with AL experience describe the sound difference with a new set of As or AAs? Thanks, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Bob, You've got the issue nailed. Comparing Heresy with fresh crossovers to Scala with 27 year old crossovers is precisely, IMO, the reason the Scalas sound the way they do. My 76 Scalas sounded just like that until I got the crossovers right. I don't have any experience with AL crossovers, but thought my Type A's were complete sweethearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 The AL's were the red-headed stepchild of all crossovers. I replaced mine with a set of ALK's and have never looked back. Night and day I tell ya... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted June 14, 2007 Moderators Share Posted June 14, 2007 We have never owned LaScalas, but we did "babysit" a pair for Colter for awhile until pick up could be arranged. I can tell you...the LaScalas we had here did not sound "cold", nor did they have a "shrill edge" at higher frequencies. I was impressed...and they were ugly Industrial LaScalas...I almost kept them[], but I really like Colter....so what does that tell you coming from a woman. [] As far as advice on how to fix the problem you are having....I will leave that to those with more experience on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old78s Posted June 14, 2007 Author Share Posted June 14, 2007 I've read of problems with blown tweeters. Would it be obvious is one of my tweeters was blown? Could this have something to do with some of the shrillness in the sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I've read of problems with blown tweeters. Would it be obvious is one of my tweeters was blown? Could this have something to do with some of the shrillness in the sound? Just stick your ear next to the tweeters and you can hear if they are working or not. Dont do it with the music up high! If you need new diaphrams contact Bob Crites here on the forum. With the networks there are lots of choices - all of them will improve the sound quite a bit. For me it was dramatic. I did not have ALs in my Belles I had stock AAs. My first step was to buy new AAs from Bob. - big improvement. Next I bought a pair of Jensen capped AAs from Dean -another noticeable step up in improvement. I am now using Deans super AAs and again experienced a pretty significant improvement. I am in the process now of having Dean build a pair of V Caped networks and based on what he says ( and he has been right on so far) and others on the forum ( audible nectar) have said, I am in for another step up. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 "How would those of you with AL experience describe the sound difference with a new set of As or AAs?" The AA's sound better at moderate to low volumes. The AL's sound better at signifcantly higher volumes. The driver protection schemes in the AL do not favor moderate volume home use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 My older LaScallas also sounded not so great before I put in the A crossovers from BEC. Also put in new tweeters. They are now better. But.... my son, 13 y/o Me Loves Heresy's has Heresys. Honestly. I actually think his sound better than my LaScallas. More warmth, More presence somehow. My Khorns sound bigger and somewhat better, but I still think his sound close. My wife and also say exactly what I do about the above. So not just my crazy ears. If I had 5 Heresy's for surround and 2 for 2 channel, would honestly be almost as good as my current setup. Look below to see current set up. Heresys are truly shockingly wonderful. Especially considering their relatively smaller size, in Klipschland anyways. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old78s Posted June 14, 2007 Author Share Posted June 14, 2007 "How would those of you with AL experience describe the sound difference with a new set of As or AAs?" The AA's sound better at moderate to low volumes. The AL's sound better at signifcantly higher volumes. The driver protection schemes in the AL do not favor moderate volume home use. It's interesting you point this out about AL crossovers, because when I crank the LaScalas to high volumes they do sound much much better. I would normally never listen to them at such high volumes, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewolf Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Can the AL crossovers be that bad? Simple answer....YES. They are horrible, in my opinion. My Lascala's had AL's and sounded....well....not so good. Put some ALK's in and WOW what a difference. Smooth and enjoyable. The harshness was removed. In fact you can fine tune the ALK's for the mid range. A bit pricey but worth every cent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Old78s "It's interesting you point this out about AL crossovers, because when I crank the LaScalas to high volumes they do sound much much better. I would normally never listen to them at such high volumes, though. " A lot of home users do not have kind words for the AL. But the fact of the matter.....the AL was not intended for home use...they need lots of space and volume to breathe....volume far above home use levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 It didn't matter what level I used, the ALs in mine sounded awful. I built a set of DHA2s, and am very pleased. Perhaps just recapping them would have been fine, but I had decided to to build the DHA2s, which are a first order constant impedance crossover. I do listen at lower levels, and teamed with my 2A3 amps, the sound is great. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 We have never owned LaScalas, but we did "babysit" a pair for Colter for awhile until pick up could be arranged. I can tell you...the LaScalas we had here did not sound "cold", nor did they have a "shrill edge" at higher frequencies. I was impressed...and they were ugly Industrial LaScalas...I almost kept them[], but I really like Colter....so what does that tell you coming from a woman. [] As far as advice on how to fix the problem you are having....I will leave that to those with more experience on this forum. Ugly industrial LaScalas? I've never thought of them as being ugly. Infact I think they are quite pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 According to John Albright and another source who wants to remain anonymous, the Type AL actually howels. I always recommend that people factor in some filter work when making these purchases. I wouldn't sell them until you can hear them after a little bit of work. Since you enjoy the sound of the Heresys with the Type E, then build some Type A's for those LaScalas -- it will literally transform them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 My 84's had AL networks in them and yes the AL is a bit on the harsh side.[+o(] I now use Al K's universal type a replacements and love em. I am also using BEC CT125 tweeters and an Altec 511B mated to my K55M. My alts were done incrementally and I can definitely say replacing your AL's will make an enormous difference. Now Id like to take em to two ways using a K69 drivers and K510 horns and bi amp em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 A blown or worn out tweeter is not going to sound shrill. A lack in bass response will though and the heresy, though not as efficient, actually players lower than the lascala. So some of the difference you're hearing is going to be related to that in some way. I would check basic things like the woofers, making sure everything is sealed, and it prob won't hurt to see what's up with the crossovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzp Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I totally agree with the forum consencus regarding the AL network. I have had the AL, the Crites convertable, the Dean ALK Jr and tha ALK AA and all three of the "aftermarket" networks are an obvious step above the stock AL's. I don't know what type of gear you are using (and I am not attempting to flame your components) upstream of the speakers but, the Lascalas are quite a bit more revealing due to their higher efficiency rating. You know the Klipsch crede, junk in junk out. The larger Heritage speakers are a magnifying glass to everything in the upstream chain. This is a blessing and a curse. Great recordings sound so dang good while, lesser recordings are just plain baaaaaad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 To easily check tweeters, either: stuff a towel in the mid horn to dampen it and listen to tweeter roll up a piece of paper into a tube, stick in tweeter angle up slightly so you can concentrate the tweeter's sound away from the mid horn. Reread Daddy Dee's post I swapped out my AL's for A/AA with Dr. Who's able assistance (and golden ears). We did one, then put them side by side and had a listen. Took all of about 17 seconds to decide which was FAR SUPERIOR. The other A/AA went in and I love em! LSI- ugly- Christy - how could you be so cruel? (they do have the dreaded AL and still sound good for PA cabinet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Maybe he likes the OVERALL sound of the Heresy better than the La Scala's ? It's unbelievable to me that we spend SO much time telling others what we think their systems should sound like........write all you want, you can't tell someone what they are suppose to hear.....speakers, power equipment, room, room treatments, carpets, or bare floors..........too many things figure into the final sound...........to include your hearing...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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