GWSmith Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Ok, I thought I would start a new topic... First by begining with a note about all those photos on the `Old K'Horn Photos' topic. I hope that will get everyone who has 'stopped by' to see them (there are over 1000 of you!) up to speed on my short history with these pair. (only a few days of limited listening)... Just tonight, I hooked up an early Toshiba DVD player as a CD sorce to the Marantz integrated quad amp you see in the final photo. I can say this about what I am hearing. There is plenty of low end. NO need for a subwoofer. There is plenty of smooth midrange - just fine, but will hurt ears if one gets raising the 'V' knob over 10 'o' clock There is a good sound stage / image (not as convincing as my Pinnacle towers......but....the BIG sound from these makes up for it in a way) Here is the kicker! I'm wondering where the highs are ???? Are these speakers normally `shy' in the upper frequencies? I have to run the treble control to the max to hear a little top end in a cymbal crash, snare brush or triangle ! Sorry to say, my new BOSE Wave Radio has more high end detail, and you can't even adjust that thing!, so the hearing ain't gone just yet [] I set the amp to MONO to make sure that both sides are equal in what little high end is coming from the horn tweeter, this, JUST to make sure I didn't have two blown out drivers. They ARE equal and there is CLEAR HIGHS coming from them, but it is very, VERY little. You've seen by my story in the other topic about the new cap job etc. All is wired correctly. So, I have tried to cover everything here and in pictures as mentioned. Maybe all those with Klipsch and the many horn - tweeter arrangements by ORIGINAL design know something I don't. I would be glad to listen to your suggestions as long as I don't have to get into heavy mods. If this is how they are ment to sound by design, READ ---the lack of high end frequency response-- then I will just live with them as they are, perhaps push the treble on the preamp and that will be it. Please let me hear from someone? Thank you! Warmly, Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 My 1965 Cornwall was like that until I replaced the network with a new Dean job. Then like magic the high end returned. Then again check the wiring to the tweeters. There may be cold solder joints or bad connections. Or something is wrong with your new cap installation. Is everything installed that is required for the new caps? Something ain't right. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted September 5, 2007 Author Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thanks JJK... Ok, I will check my xovers again, but I was VERY careful and took those photos which can be clearly seen in most everyway. Perhaps someone will pick up on it? Funny thing is, as mentioned, BOTH are sounding exactly the same, so, I would have had to make the same mistake twice. Well, I can say, its possible. Bob Crites, are you reading this ???? Hope so. Going out to eat, will check here when I return. Perhaps someone will have answers ) Regards, Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryO Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Gary, I recapped two pairs of my K's last year and one pair of them came out the same way you are describing yours. I ended up taking my Crites CT-125s out of my Wallrus and putting them in the K's and the highs came back. I'm not using the Khorns now but when I get them set back up I figure to put new diaphrams in them and see if it helps. I'm pretty sure it will. Mine are almost 35 years old and I'm sure they need it. Keep us posted on what you find out. Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Gary, With the newly rebuilt Type A crossovers, the tweeters should have about all the energy going to them that they can stand. So, looking at other things we quickly come to either a problem with wiring to the tweeters or just plain old weak tweeters. Now, in considering the tweeters, at the ripe old age of 39 years like yours, the alnico magnet may have weakened to some extent. Also the tweeter itself was a bit of an "odd duck" in 1967 and perhaps in 1968 as well. My K-77s in my 1967 LaScalas were built differently from later ones and were in fact rather weak when I got them. A rebuild with new diaphragms helped them a lot. One other thing about those alnico K-77s. Lots of them are plenty loud, but only make it up to around 12 khz. Most of the later square magnet (ceramic) K-77Ms get up to around 16 khz. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted September 5, 2007 Author Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thanks SO much Bob for responding. I hope you saw the photos of my project also here on `2 channel' forum.. Shows how I went through this pair of K'Horns extensively INCLUDING the addition of the caps you sent me to the type `A` xover. All wiring can be seen redundantly throughout in those photos. Take a peek won't you? Would you suggest that I change out the K-77 drivers on these tweeters? You know, they DO seem to have an output of some kind. I mentioned in my photos topic, that I had finally got to listen to them, and early on noted that the tweeters are there, but they are LOW in frequency AND volume!, in other words, almost like a `midrange / tweeter' combination driver, but, as you say, drop out in the higher frequency area ... Since the wiring is good, and the xovers are GOOD, perhaps you or another member could steer me toward the right direction for a proper driver change out? Would Klipsch sell the tweeter assembly (2) complete or driver only?? Please write back and let me know. I really like these K'Horns, but they need the highs to complete the `package' [] Hear from you soon. Regards, Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Gary, As far as I can tell from the pictures, your wiring looks right. I did not see any point where you took the wires off the inside of the terminal strip. Sometimes a bit of corrosion forms under the screws and just loosening them and retightening them will usually fix that. Probably not that since you are hearing less on both tweeters. Rebuilding your old K-77s would probably give some improvement. Anyway, there are better tweeters than the ones you have. You mentioned buying from Klipsch and you can do that. They would sell you a pair of their K-77Fs which are a clone of the ceramic magnet K-77M which was originally built by Electro-Voice. That tweeter gets you up to around 16 khz. Also the K-77Ms are available used. Then there is another choice. That is a tweeter that replaces the K-77 and goes all the way up to 20 khz. I could help you with any of those options except the new K-77Fs which would have to come from Klipsch. Bob Crites bobcrites@mac.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted September 6, 2007 Author Share Posted September 6, 2007 Hello Bob. GREAT, you got to see the photos and agree the wiring is fine. As you said, its probably not the the fault of corrosion on the terminal strip, as BOTH are behaving identically, but I WILL give those screws a tweak just in case - something I omitted doing while they were apart [:$]. I DID notice the little jumper wires from section to section..........you never know [] Ok on the tweeter change out suggestions. Are the FACTORY Klipsch `clones' the tweeter they are now using on the current Heritage series? Well, I will check into that. Else we can chat more about other alternatives as you suggest. Again, thanks always for your continued help! With regards, Gary PS. Are my K'Horns the ONLY ones on the forum with white grills? I have not seen another pair like these...just wondering. Perhaps many have replaced their grills that were originally white?.... Or, is it the color used on the earliest versions..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryO Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 "One other thing about those alnico K-77s. Lots of them are plenty loud, but only make it up to around 12 khz. Most of the later square magnet (ceramic) K-77Ms get up to around 16 khz." I never thought about or even imagined that. I'll get another pair of the Crites CT-125's from Bob when I set them back up. I can sell my K-77's and pretty much pay for the Bob Crites tweeters. I prefer the Crites CT-125's sound over the K-77s. Bob, I'll be getting with you in a week or so. Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Gary, disconnect the midrange drivers and make sure the tweeters are working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted September 6, 2007 Author Share Posted September 6, 2007 Thanks Harry O and DeanG for your reply... Here is something for you... When I got home, I wanted to hear some of my Delos CD of Percy Grainger, a FANTASTIC CD I use for demonstrating a great sound stage. Well, I noticed a funny little buzz coming from the left speaker on one of the tracks of this CD with a solo horn in the beginning. One note of that instrument and the midrange horn was doing the `ZAZOO' act !!!! A sympathetic vibration in the driver indicating that its partially finished! Dean, it is here that I disconnected the K-55-V and listened to the tweeter by itself - this BEFORE reading your email []. The tweeter was working fine, again, a VERY diminished sound in volume, yet, still crystal clear highs are coming from it..........go figure. The K-55 is so much `bigger', it just hides the output from the K-77, or, what can be heard from it. Anyway, I had the K-55 in my hand and played the same passage. Sure enough, the K-55 is buzzing.. So, now I need to get it rebuilt, and if I am going to do that, guess I should do BOTH. To me, its like changing out headlights and such, in PAIRS at the same time I say. More thoughts ?? I was waiting to hear from Klipsch support today as I was looking into what they have for replacement K-77's... Well, I think I will write Bob and see what he has. The CT-125's ??? Thanks again, Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallflower Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Just send everything to Bob and let him rebuild them. You'll be glad you did. I'd probably send the K-77s too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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