A stupid Khorn question

[dkalsi]

I know this is going to sound stupid, and I know the K-horns are supposed to go all the way into the corner - but I wanted to know if its okay if they stick 3-4 inches away from one of the walls.

I was going to move my K-horns into the basement - one side I have a perfect corner but on the other side, I have this water radiated heat (which we no longer use) and so because of the radiator - I can not stick it all the way in the corner. This will cause the khorn to be about 4 inches away from one side of the wall.

Is this going to have a huge impact on the sound?

[seti]

I know this is going to sound stupid, and I know the K-horns are supposed to go all the way into the corner - but I wanted to know if its okay if they stick 3-4 inches away from one of the walls.

I was going to move my K-horns into the basement - one side I have a perfect corner but on the other side, I have this water radiated heat (which we no longer use) and so because of the radiator - I can not stick it all the way in the corner. This will cause the khorn to be about 4 inches away from one side of the wall.

Is this going to have a huge impact on the sound?

It will have some impact but you can always build a false corner like PWK used in his home. If you search false corners on the forum you should be able to find the plans.

[Groomlakearea51]

Can you explain how it fits on one wall, but not the other, is it an obstruction in the corner? Is the other wall off angle, missing, etc.

In any event, seti is right, false corner is the easiest way to solve the problem. Very easily done with a couple of 4' x 4' pieces of 3/4" or 5/8" plywood. It's the bass bin that needs to seal, and the bottom piece of the top section which completes the enclosure next to the walls.

OBTW: No question is stupid (except certain ones I ask "she who must be obeyed"...). []

[3Fates]

Sort of related ... I was thinking of cutting the baseboard molding in my corners to get my KHorns right against the wall. Am I out of my mind? Will eliminating the half inch gap give noticeable sonic benefits? It's my own dedicated room so I can do whatever I like.

[Groomlakearea51]

Funny one should mention that..... In the "dedicated" room, the baseboards will end approximately 8" from the corners where the Klipschorns will go. The original tailboard has been removed and a new tailboard with no cutout installed. Pipe insulation installed on all sealing edges, piece of felt glued all along bottom bin edges to complete the seal. Floors are hardwood laminate.

Still waiting for electricians to return to install outlets (wires hanging out and in FL we cannot install them ourselves without a license[bs]... Really!! I'm not kidding). Cannot legally use (that means put anything at all) in the room unless all inspections have been done and a "threshold" inspection approved by the County!!

[djk]

Not having a good seal into the corner affects the response in the range of 250hz~400hz, an inch or so can cause as much as a 10dB dip.

[gaspr]

You mention that the rads are no longer used?? If that is the
case, then I would suggest that you simply remove them, or
have a plumber do it if you don't want to tackle it. Should not
be a big deal at all.

The other solution that comes to mind is to
close in your k-horns like the 60th anni K's. There are a few
good threads on how to do this mod. You could then leave your
khorns 3 or 4 inches away from the corners with no ill effects.

Is
this a huge impact on the sound? I would have to say yes.
To sound their best, Khorns have to be tightly sealed into corners, or
have the backs sealed, or use false corners...definitely affects the
overall tonal balance when that ultra low end is removed.

[wwh]

I had a similar problem in one of my corners with radiant baseboard
heat and a windowsill, so I made a gap filler using 2x3 framing screwed
to the wall covered with 5/8" particleboard (sort of like half of a
false corner).

[djk]

"definitely affects the overall tonal balance when that ultra low end is removed. "

But it doesn't.

At the risk of repeating myself:

"Not having a good seal into the corner affects the response in the range of 250hz~400hz"

[gaspr]

OK, I'll try that again.

Definately affects the overall tonal balance when the frequencies in the range of 250-400hz are attenuated.[:S]

[fini]

Funny one should mention that..... In the "dedicated" room, the baseboards will end approximately 8" from the corners where the Klipschorns will go. The original tailboard has been removed and a new tailboard with no cutout installed. Pipe insulation installed on all sealing edges, piece of felt glued all along bottom bin edges to complete the seal. Floors are hardwood laminate.

Still waiting for electricians to return to install outlets (wires hanging out and in FL we cannot install them ourselves without a license[bs]... Really!! I'm not kidding). Cannot legally use (that means put anything at all) in the room unless all inspections have been done and a "threshold" inspection approved by the County!!

If you installed one receptacle, would the electrician turn you in?

[Groomlakearea51]

Theoretically... Yes.... Practically... I've cheated on one receptacle... But, the electrician still has to tell us when they will show up.... Instant removal... The subcontractors don't fool around like they used to. Doing stuff yourself that's code requirement can get you into big trouble with Building & Zoning. They made a guy out all of his insulation about six months ago because he stapled it incorrectly. Big stink and the guy's suing the county and the house still sits, incomplete.

What caused the problems were the massive shoddy building and construction practices in Florida that first came to light during Hurricane Andrew. The FEMA could not figure out why certain houses were fairly intact, but acres of others were roofless. They later determined that contractors had been "cheating" on hurricane straps on the trusses to battens. It went downhill from there. Then after Hurricanes Frances, Jeanne, and Wilma in 2004 & 2005, they really cracked down on everything. It really stems from the insurance companies and the mortgage banks. They have really demanded that the counties have strict codes and strict inspections. Almost everything has to be rated for up to a Cat-3 hurricane now.

[fini]

I think that's just silly.  Yeah, codes must be followed (that's what inspections are for), but a homeowner should be able to do the work himself. I think someone's pockets are being lined.

[Groomlakearea51]

Homeowner can... but they have to pass the electrican's code test.... Test is only offered certain days, and apparently very few "homeowners" pass it. Oh well....

[bhenry]

From an electrician's point of view- I agree with Florida's practice. I have seen "homeowner's" work and quite frankly it scares me. I understand the idea that the house belongs to them and they are only risking the lives of them and their own family but it does take it's toll on everyone's insurance rates.

Having said that, can't you put a bug up their a** and get them over to put your receptacles in? Hey, I have a great idea! The economy is so bad here in Michigan that I would be willing to come down there and finish the job for you (I have a contractors license, too. Most states will let you work on an out-of-state license for 30 days or more). I'll leave tonight and I'll bring my tools with me so I have them.

[fini]

Nice offer, B!  I see your point with more exotic stuff, like changing out a panel, etc., but a receptacle?  As long as they wire it correctly (plenty of hot/neutral mis-wires out there), which the inspector can easily check, I don't see a problem.  Carpenter's point of view here...Hey, If I can get into Kennedy Space Center for a launch, I could be talked into coming down to do some wood butchering!  Yee-haw!

[IB Slammin]

Homeowner can... but they have to pass the electrican's code test.... Test is only offered certain days, and apparently very few "homeowners" pass it. Oh well....

I must be missing something here. Perhaps this comes from my rebeluious youth of the '60's, current political incorrectness, or whatever,............

Unless I have a new construction building inspector over for dinner, .....excuse me,...... I will do whatever I damn-well please in, or to the property that I own. (just short of smoking a cigarette inside my home)

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. Don't think I will take an electrican's code test to change out a light fixture, receptale, or light bulb.

Not anytime soon, anyway.

tc

[Groomlakearea51]

Good morning everyone! Had nightmares last night that the Klipschorn corners were not "square", woke up sweating, etc. Went out to the new room and measured again. Whew!!

In any event, Great offers!!! but the money I would have to pay the forum members was given to the electrical contractor.....[:'(]

IB: You are absolutely right, and I agree with you that personal property is the exclusive domain of the owner. The deep bite is when you have a mortgage and insurance. Let me explain a bit about Florida (it's early Sunday morning and church services are at 11:00, so...)

The code requirements apply to new construction and "remodels". Theoretically.... you have to have a permit whenever wires are changed, pulled, added, etc. First inspection (there are two) The inspector has to see the wires hanging at the breaker box (unconnected), make sure they are 12/2 or 14/2 dependent on application, and wires at boxes (unconnected), and boxes certain height above floor, and minimum of one box every 6 feet on a wall. They then leave, and contractor can do insulation (another inspection..), walls and flooring (another inspection). Electrician returns, hooks breaker, installs receptacles, plates (yes, they have to put on the plates...), then final inspection.

While everyone does most minor "stuff" themselves, the building and zoning (B&Z) nazis (and let's not forget the homeowner association nazis) drive around and if they see new construction, and no permit box in front of the property, the B&Z can halt the construction. Where the catch comes in is if you add square feet to an existing structure, you will get caught within a year. Building and Zoning notifies the Property Appraiser of all permits that add square feet, or a permanent exterior structure.

The Property Appraiser, who is required by law to do a "look-see" once a year, has a complete description and picture of the property. They show up and see big new room, and if it's not on the printout.... the County can force the homeowner to remove it, or pay a fine (a big one...). Even if the fine is paid, it then has to be inspected, and the inspection nazis go crazy, and by the time it's inspected, you will have torn out the walls, insulation, electrical, etc.

People do "stuff" all the time without a permit. Generally it's pole barns and such. They pay the fine and oh well.

Another issue is political... It would not do well for me, as I am an employee of the County, to "get caught" violating the law, even if it's only an ordinance/ civil issue. I have 24 months to go, and that would be a very bad thing.

Does this relate to the topic? Sorta'... Adding a wall inside my house to accomodate Klipschorns would require a permit if (a) it ties to a primary load bearing wall; ( creates another room; © is longer than 6 feet (requires an outlet).

Does the Property Appraiser come inside a house? No... But if you take a big room, and make two small rooms, the homeowner's insurance company will eventually have to know for coverage... If you sell your house, most mortgage banks want the legal description, including the physical layout of the house. Being cautious... I discussed the new room with my mortgage company and insurance company (the same people). When the room is done, I have to notify them of (1) size, (2) date of completion, and certify that it was approved by B&Z..... If I don't, I could lose my homeowners insurance and thus my mortgage.... So there are some real consequences to not doing it by the book.

The problem with Florida stems from two things, first the previous "slack" enforcement of building codes and the astronomical claims from Hurricane Andrew, and second, the the really bad 2004, 2005 hurricane seasons. Most insurance companies have pulled out of Florida, and without insurance, it's impossible to obtain a construction loan or a mortgage. Those that remain, insist on absolute compliance with building codes (for good reason...)

It's arguable that the whole situation in Florida (vis a vis a wall for Klipschorns...) is way over any reasonable expectations, but unfortunately when you are living in paradise... there's a price.

Fortunately, the solution to the Klipschorn corner challenge (at least 99.9999%) of the time is a simple false corner.

When I retire, we are selling the house, the property and probably moving back to Arkansas, probably near Subiaco area.[H]

[fini]

Ah, Arkansas, where one can still set up speaker manufacturing in an old laundry "shack"...

[seti]

Ah, Arkansas, where one can still set up speaker manufacturing in an old laundry "shack"...

Those were the days when a speaker builder and engineer owned and ran the company. 

Actually I seem to remember seeing a sign over a gas staion with all of these listed across the front of the building Gas, Bait, Ammo, Guns, Beer, Taxidermy, Meat Processing, CAFE. I wish I had a camera with me. Then there is the Goater Roaper in Hope where the lady was going to open a colon blow clinic in the same building. I lack the emoticon to express myself regarding that.