Marvel Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 ...are you trying to say the long throw pro cinema WartHOG horn was a good substitute? It sure aint pretty.... No, but Mr. Widget's horns are gorgeous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 I made the comment,,,, I would give an eyetooth for some polor plots of the 402 and 510,,,, Dean was kind enough to present them,,,, What???? are you guys BLIND????? at the lower end they are fine but when you get to the upper frequencies they narrow both horizontal and verticle,,,, Its too bad that ALL the plots ar,nt superimposed on top of each other. The narrowing is quite obvious,,,most horns trying for a wider bandwidth will show this problem,,,SO that when you sit OFF AXIS things will collaps,,,,Beamwidth vs frequency,,,,Directivity vs frequency,,,,one polor plot missing is the FRONTAL ISOBAR CONTOURS those would be interesting to see.....As far as the 69 driver its adequate if you EQ the pissss out of them,,, But what the heck the newer digital elect xovers can handle that.....Some of the people at the jube meet sitting off axis heard what happens if your not sitting in the LIMELIGHT of the horn....Remember below 5K that is the fundamental of musical intruments,,,above 5K will be most of the harmonics.... The Martinelli horns give very good coverage it too will start to beam (like most horns)....Tracktrix is not above this... That is why i still say some other OLD horns will (DO) outdue it and in spades...That why i am one of those still in reserve,,,,Roy tried to get testy with me on his comment " if its not tracktrix throw it away" I guess i was too much of a gentleman,,,, To tell him he was full of WILD BLUEBERRY MUFFINS and stuff it.... But that between Roy and I... George Ashworth and I both told Paul the error of his ways,,,, That is when Ashworth showed him the door,,, They later kept there friendship loosely intact ,,the gentlemen that they were. SSSSSOOOOO rotating on its side,, the 402 horns will give you even a NARROW poler plot at higher frequencies. Will it fly???? not without crabbing and scewing. you okay? in Christ, because of God's grace, roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Thank you Dave ..... But the Smith with a TAD 4001 or 4002 would be even smoother.... and all without EQing the pissss out of them. at the expense of polar coverage. in Christ, because of God's grace, roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Uh oh, Maron, you're making controversial (and/or potentially upsetting) statements ...... You know what'll happen now. You're going to be out. Carl. don't you just hate when that happens?[8-|] in Christ, because of God's grace, roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 I have to ask why has the smith horn method not become widely used? In other words what are the compromises necessary to make it work? What happens to the verticle dispersion of a horn like this as frequency changes over it's designed bandwidth? Why has JBL and others gone on to design and use other types of horns if these were the best answer? So the Horn Eqs the driver that doesn't necessarly make it the best method to reproduce sound. The EQ used for the K69-A or any driver that would be used with the K402 isn't necessarily a bad thing and all keep in mind that the EQ is partly acheived by reducing the drive to the driver and not just boosting the response. Maron please don't misunderstand my questions because I'm really curious about these horns and would like for you to explain why you believe they might be superior. Also again I want to say no one as far as I know is claiming perfection with the K402 or the K69-A but to hear and spend time with this combination is a real ear opener especially for the cost involved IMHO. I would love for you to hear a good demo of the K402/K69-A and I would love to hear one of your favorite horns/drivers to see where your coming from. mike tn you mean to actually HEAR them, miketn? heeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyyy......that's crazy enough that it just might work!! in Christ, because of God's grace, roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 mikebse2a3...... the smith horn is still being made in Europe,,,In Germany..I cant recall there name... Most being made here, are in Calif.... Westlake still makes them for there monaters..... JBL like most large speaker manufacturs have moved on as interest in studio moniters shifted to other companys in the Pacific rim,,,, But if you get on there JBL Japan market you will see that country has a great following for anything JBL... And will not be distributed over here.... I must admit the only Jube ive heard is the threeway pro cinema....But there it is 402 honken big in the mids... Its OK for what it is,,,,But I wouldnt drop to my knees for it. I dont care for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Mike...Maybe you should change your Avatar from Dr Who to teachers pet...Your audio schooling seems poor on application...Maybe a career as school bus driver. I never mentioned anything about constant directivity horns....Yes all drivers could use some touch up, its allways wise to start with one with less problems... Diffraction horns can be used to great advantage....after all the Klipschorn has been useing it for over 50 years. The K77 is a good example of that. I havent heard you complain about the distortions there. We (Karrenbroch,, Ashworth,,Sharp,,Pollak,, Jastrom etc. etc.) have been personally complaining to Paul for years... give it up!!! All i.ve stated is that the 402 will also beem....I never stated that the 402 would sound bad.. the polor plots prove that the overall coverage is not perfect. and you cant EQ that out without changing the horn. Alot of us were shocked that the Klipsch Co. did not go further with the origional Tracktrix design that Paul stood next to...are you trying to say the long throw pro cinema WartHOG horn was a good substitute? It sure aint pretty.... Mike you can shave your legs but you aint pretty. wow!! i detect juuuuuuuuuuust a bit of antagonism......could be wrong though. miketn does have good legs........coyotee-o told me so...... in Christ, because of God's grace, roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 the long throw pro cinema WartHOG horn was a good substitute? Maron what critera do you use to describe a horn as long throw? I wouldn't consider a 90 x 50 horn long throw. Something more along the line of 40 x 20 horn would fit that description. Anyone who has heard the K402 would never describe it as a long throw. mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 mikebse2a3...... the smith horn is still being made in Europe,,,In Germany..I cant recall there name... Most being made here, are in Calif.... Westlake still makes them for there monaters..... JBL like most large speaker manufacturs have moved on as interest in studio moniters shifted to other companys in the Pacific rim,,,, But if you get on there JBL Japan market you will see that country has a great following for anything JBL... And will not be distributed over here.... I must admit the only Jube ive heard is the threeway pro cinema....But there it is 402 honken big in the mids... Its OK for what it is,,,,But I wouldnt drop to my knees for it. I dont care for it. that's it then. it's settled. done and done. we'll throw all them stinking 402's away......it'll have to be a long throw..... in Christ, because of God's grace, roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 No No !!!! dont throw them away !!!!!! You misundersood me....I , I , I , still have a good use for them..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 i am even going to send a recall to all those theaters and get them all back......bad roy, bad roy.........must go back in time and learn....real horns.....hg wells.....help me ..... in Christ, because of God's grace, roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 If you insist,,,,, But if you plug up the throat and fill the bell of the horn with Blueberry ice cream. Ill share a spoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Ya know, I respect Roy because he never tries to hide behind an ego and most of what he claims I can go experience for myself. And really, anytime I make a claim without citing someone else, it's because I've actually gone out and listened to it. So, what do you recommend in place of the 402? I don't like the Smith Horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Well mike, your up off your knees,,,,,, How about a palladium. Yes Roy is a good man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Mike i,ve heard some bad Smith horns too.... If the septas are not made right or placed right they will obviously sound bad.. The septa shape has to be spot on...... Some people get sloppy.... Even Bob Smith changed the horn design and does not resemble the polor pattern of the old 1950 horn,,,, The 2397 was also different but the pattern was better.....the German unit is even better depending on its size and polor pattern. The Westlakes took a different approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 "Here's the polars from the original Smith" The Smith is one I'd like to hear someday. Do you know which multicell they were compared to? The Smith is obviously combing at 5kHz (fingering) and it only gets worse from there. You can count the divisions the vanes make in the 15kHz plot. The multi-cells finger too of course. I crossed mine at 8kHz to try to avoid some of that. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Yes the 1950 version was a bit raggid.....But later Bob Smith redesigned the horn for JBL and was much smoother..Those plots can be found on the Lansing Heritage site ... 2397 plots in JBL library. The German site ill try to find...And seems even smoother ...Those Germans are so precise. (smooth as glass).. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 "..But later Bob Smith redesigned the horn for JBL and was muchsmoother..Those plots can be found on the Lansing Heritage site ...2397 plots in JBL library. " I found this graph there. It doesn't have as much information on it as the earlier graph. You can still see the fingering begining at 5kHz on that graph and it doesn't show what happens above that point in the horizontal plane. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Assuming the above is sufficiently off-topic to warrant its own thread, I might ask why no one has asked about using a KPT-942-T? What is the price of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Assuming the above is sufficiently off-topic to warrant its own thread, I might ask why no one has asked about using a KPT-942-T? What is the price of that? I like the way you think. I am setting that up now. I have the bass bins and the fed ex guy just called me to meet him out front with a dolly in few. New pair of K402's coming. Of course ....my wife will be meeting him with the dolly....I'm at work....[:|] There is no passive available for it either....at least not behind a screen. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.