Another Hundred Days of Jubilee Ownership

[Chris A]

...Did you recently post a sale in the "Garage" for the Crowns, & if so what are you going to replace them with?

Not me - I'm okay with my setup. Someone is probably going to have to bring over something else to show me firsthand before I'm going to be dissatisfied with my Crown XTi's.

Chris

[Chris A]

How about a pic of your Jubilee's.

I believe that I've posted this before, but...the things on top of each speaker are bass traps.

Chris

[Chris A]

I dunno...I can think of lots of instruments and music with fundamentals below 40, 50Hz.

Also, a lot of horns really suck - so I could totally see how that author may have arrived at his conclusions...I wonder if after all these years if the guy is open-minded enough to change his mind after hearing some of the really good horns?

1) Yes - and your point is?

2) There are probably much more direct radiator speakers that are also awful. What year did Paul Klipsch start selling the Klipschhorn?

[Chris A]

Like you, I got away from vinyl around 1986, and started collecting high quality CD's (mobile fidelity, xrcd, etc), but I still felt something was missing in the music. Now granted, I don't have Jubs to listen with. But after being away from vinyl for 15 years I started to get back into it. First with a modest Dual CS-5000, and for the last 2 years with my rebuilt Thorens TD-124/SME 3009/Zu DL-103.

Let me tell you right now that those high quality recorded CD's do not compare to the sound of high quality recorded vinyl on a decent vinyl rig. I'm not sure what your vinyl setup is, or what preamp/phono setup you are using, but I would think if my modest vinyl setup (and BBX w/cream) was hooked to your Crown/Jubs it would sound glorious! Maybe one day I can try it out in my own home.

Mike

You are the second person that I've talked with recently that assures me that vinyl beats digital. While I'm still skeptical, I'm frankly intrigued. The only folks that resisted CDs in the 80s were those that had a stake in keeping vinyl (e.g., TT and cartridge mfgers., direct-to-disk recording studios, etc.). The oft-quoted story of the Emerson CD player driving a Jubilee demo at Klipsch has been cited many times here. I've also heard of folks that have dropped many thousands of dollars on TTs -- good money that could have much better have gone toward buying Jubilees, IMHO.

In my way of thinking, if one CD that beats all the vinyl that I've heard, then the issue is probably not vinyl but is likely more an issue of engineering recordings. I'm thinking "Loudness War" mentality and increasingly poorer engineering and industry practices that cater to the iPod generation as the root issues. The same issue may be true of SACD disks, which have been said to be actually inferior to standard CD format in the highest octave (not a good place to be inferior, I might add). The issue is not so much the format, but the engineers used - many SACD disks are said to be superior to many DVD-A recordings, simply because of "who" did the recording, not "what".

If you would indulge me here: can you recommend an example vinyl disk that you would recommend that you have heard and that is also widely available for purchase that I might be able to find?

Edited November 10, 2013 by Cask05

[DrWho]

1) Yes - and your point is?

I don't think the following is entirely fair:

Anyone that says that they need a subwoofer with these probably
has some tendency toward bass addiction— a common malady in this
market—or they are watching war and action movies with lots of
percussive audio effects.

If a speaker covers the bandwidth required by the source material, then I agree that there is absolutely no reason to extend the bandwidth of the system. However, there is plenty of great source material that warrants itself to dedicated 2-channel listening that requires a bandwidth wider than what the Jubilee will provide.

[Chris A]

1) Yes - and your point is?

I don't think the following is entirely fair:

Anyone that says that they need a subwoofer with these probably

has some tendency toward bass addiction— a common malady in this

market—or they are watching war and action movies with lots of

percussive audio effects.

If a speaker covers the bandwidth required by the source material, then I agree that there is absolutely no reason to extend the bandwidth of the system. However, there is plenty of great source material that warrants itself to dedicated 2-channel listening that requires a bandwidth wider than what the Jubilee will provide.

Since you brought it up, what lower frequency did you have in mind (in Hz)? Could you give me an example recording, by title?

Chris

[Mike Lindsey]

If you would indulge me here: can you recommend an example vinyl disk that you would recommend that you have heard and that is also widely available for purchase that I might be able to find?

Sure... here are just a few:

Original Pressings
Jeff Beck - Blow By Blow (Epic - orange label)
Rickie Lee Jones - Pop Pop (Geffen)
Rickie Lee Jones - Flying Cowboys (Geffen)
The Doors (any that have the original red Electra label)
Richie Cole And... Return To Alto Acres (Palo Alto Records)

Audiophile Pressings
Blood, Sweat & Tears - S/T (Direct Disk Labs)
Bowers & Wilkins presents: Very Audiophile New Recordings (you can get this from Elusivedisc or Acoustic Sounds)
Jack Sheldon & His West Coast Friends - Angel Wings (Atlas Records)
Rimsky-Korsakoff's Scheherazade - Chicago Symphony w/Fritz Reiner (Classic Records from Elusivedisc or Acoustic Sounds)

Mike

[Chris A]

Thanks Mike,

I have one of those already-the BS&T album. I also have a Jeff Beck Blow-by-Blow album, although it is a pressing from the 70s (assuming orange-label is different than not-orange-label.) I'll try to compare the BS&T with the same material on CD.

On my system at least, one of the things that I have found is that the soundstage seems a bit more compressed in front-back depth and higher background noise levels with vinyl. Granted, I presently do not have anywhere close to the world's best TT/arm/cartridge. Getting a good recording on both CD and vinyl with good source-material depth and stereo imaging has been my issue for A-B comparison.

Chris

Edited November 10, 2013 by Cask05

[homemadeheresy]

"I don't think the following is entirely fair:

Cask05:

Anyone that says that they need a subwoofer with these probably has some tendency toward bass addiction— a common malady in this market—or they are watching war and action movies with lots of percussive audio effects.

If a speaker covers the bandwidth required by the source material, then I agree that there is absolutely no reason to extend the bandwidth of the system. However, there is plenty of great source material that warrants itself to dedicated 2-channel listening that requires a bandwidth wider than what the Jubilee will provide. "

I agree with these two comments. I enjoy listening to two channel stereo. Currently in my attic I have the Homemade La Belles on the inside and Kg-5.5s on the outside. With this combination there is more than enough bass to vibrate the loveseat from where I listen.

Then while listening to music with my uncle, who used to play bass guitar in a band, he has a 5.1 set up with an 18-inch Cerwin Vega. 99% of the time he has way too much power headed towards the sub. Puts you in the mind of the kids running around town vibrating their license plate and body panels off of their cars.

Have never heard the Jubes yet but am contemplating trying to make it to the pilgramage this year.

By the way Clapton is playing Deer Creek, May 30th.

[Mike Lindsey]

I have one of those already-the BS&T album. I also have a Jeff Beck Blow-by-Blow album, although it is a pressing from the 70s (assuming orange-label is different than not-orange-label.) I'll try to compare the BS&T with the same material on CD.

Is your BS&T the Direct Disk Labs pressing? If not, there is a big difference. And the Blow By Blow needs to be the original Orange Epic label.

Mike

[Chris A]

Is your BS&T the Direct Disk Labs pressing? Yes If not, there is a big difference.

And the Blow By Blow needs to be the original Orange Epic label.

Mike

I assume that the "orange label" is the one on the record itself. If this is so, then I have an orange-label Blow by Blow (newly acquired in 1977).

Edited November 10, 2013 by Cask05

[Travis In Austin]

The Doors (any that have the original red Electra label)

Mike,

I very much agree. original Doors pressings are fantastic, but original Doors Elektra pressings will have a tan or gold lable.

Travis

[DrWho]

Since you brought it up, what lower frequency did you have in mind (in Hz)? Could you give me an example recording, by title?

I think flat to 26Hz (so an F3 below 26Hz) would be a good place to start. All of my sound stuff is in the lab at school so you'll have to give me some time to provide some titles with measurements showing the bandwidth. I also want to make sure I choose titles that most here would be more likely to enjoy. I'm aware of the fact that I definitely prefer "different" music so I'm not about to start listing all of my favorites only to have them torn apart (been there done that before).

Btw, there was a really interesting thread started by formica where he ran all sorts of waterfall plots of his favorite music when he was designing his IB subwoofer to supplement his khorns...I was surprised by a lot of it to be honest. I'll see if I can't dig up that thread.

[Chris A]

Mike B.,

I sent you a PM.

Chris

[cjgeraci]

How about a pic of your Jubilee's.

I believe that I've posted this before, but...the things on top of each speaker are bass traps.

Chris

Chris, congrats on your Jubilee's. In looking at your pictures I have a comment. I assume that those are "RealTraps" on top of your Jubilees similar to the ones that I have in my man cave. I used to also place my RealTraps on top of my modded Khorns, like you do with your Jubs until I represented an acoustician who designs and remodels large concert halls, etc. We started shooting the breeze about audio and I drew him a picture of my room and placement of various realtraps (and other fiberglass panels). He agreed with placing the traps in the corners opposite the Khorns and several places where the walls meet the ceilings. However, he suggested that I was losing bass by placing them on top of the khorns. I followed his advise and my bass response seemed to improve.

I do not know if his recommendation would also apply to the Jubs in those corners, but I thought that I would bring it up anyway. If you have already tried if differently and it was worse another way, please feel free to disregard my comments.

Again, congrats.

Carl.

[Chris A]

Carl,

Thanks for the info! I actually have a problem with where to put mine if I move them (...into the kitchen?...) but you can bet that I'm trying something out tonight. I'm sure that the wife isn't going to be getting in my way to move those things.

Room modes are the main issue that I'm currently dealing with. One of the things that I've heard from other audio types that have come by is the much-larger Jube sweet spot vis-à-vis Khorns--note that Jubes don't seem to have the Khorn issues with ceiling and floor bounce.

Regards,

Chris A.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Cask05

[Chris A]

Well <ahem>...guess where my bass traps aren't, now...

[seti]

Any difference ?

[Chris A]

A great deal of difference...almost all in the audible bass
region, I'd say about 100-350 Hz, is more prevalent than with the traps sitting
on top. I’ve repositioned the traps to
different parts of the room – no other corners were available. This means that I’m going to have to live
with some room modes. The overall
effect, though, is a more “live” feel to the room. The K-402 CD horns really do their job nicely
in keeping the problems from being worse.

Chris

[Bill W.]

Hey Chris,

I just read this thread (been very busy). Your review is informative and well-written. This dialouge helps all those here who want to learn more about the Jubilees. All the demos I have provided here at the house are consistent with your experiences. People are just dumbstruck at hearing for the first time what they have never before heard from a loudspeaker system. Most people who have heard our system have asked if they can come back for another listening session with friends and additional music. We have really enjoyed having the Jubilees set up to compare with the Klipschorns all winter. I can hardly wait to begin the season in Colorado - We are already getting calls asking when live music will be scheduled for the patio (through the Jubilees of course!)

I'm glad you're loving your Jubilees... How could you not love something this awesome???

Take care,

Bill