Music Server for Vinyl Lovers/Digital Haters Progress

[Mallette]

It's still going to take a while, but with the help of Linux guru John Foley the shape of MBS-7 is taking form. Instead of starting from known technology, I started with what I know about the most computer phobic, analog loving, digital hating "I only got two ears so why do I need more than 2 channels" crowd that frequents this forum. I figure if only a couple of them give it a try it will work for ANYBODY!

The basic model:

-no moving parts, all drives flash memory based

-no Windoze, embedded Linux for Media

-Intel 1708A HD audio chipset

>supports to 8 channels, but in this implementation only 2 used

>up to 24/192X2 recording (24/88.2 recommended unless you are a total fanatic with the ears of a cat)

-2 line LCD screen for information

-remote controllable

-wireless network to communicate with separate music server for storage

-VERY small footprint (one hand open flat with a bit hanging over).

The above version would automatically name recordings generically. If you wanted to name the tracks you'd unplug it and take to where you have a keyboard/monitor/mouse and plug it in. For ripping existing media like CD's it would connect through the wireless to one of the free databases and download all the info on tracks, artist, etc automatically. This will be the most basic first gen system.

So today I am experimenting with the 2nd gen option of a touch screen monitor. It would add around 500.00 to the build cost, but many would find it the way to go. I've been recording vinyl with a touch screen today via Windoze and it is an excellent experience. Being able to touch the little red button with my finger as opposed to having to mouse to it during the lead in track is wonderful. There are on screen keyboards availalbe for Linux that pop a full size keyboard onto a touch screen, so you eliminate the keyboard any mouse while still being able to easily name files and directories. Playing music through WinAmp or similar is also really cool and easy by just touching files you want to hear. You'd also be able to drag files to a playlist in any order you wanted, etc, etc.

Granted the above requires having a 15 or 17 inch monitor in the hallowed listening room but if you just consider it an advanced front end for your TT or CD player perhaps it can be forgiven. At least the hated mouse and keyboard need not intrude.

These tests are being made using the venerable MBS-5 of 2003 which is still running dead silent (no fans and a VERY quite HDD you can only hear from about 2 inches from it) running Windoze and a Card deluxe. I used Sound Forge to touch screen record a marvelous 1971 LP of Benny Goodman and the results are, at least to my ears, pretty indistinguishable at 24/88.2 from the album. It is certainly a LOT handier to get to and doesn't need cleaning!

My projections are to acquire the basic components within the next two months for the basic unit.

More as it develops...

Dave

[LarryC]

It sounds great. I only wish I knew what you are talking about! [*-)]

[Mallette]

A place to randomly access all the CD's in your collection, record vinyl at or near (depending on how hard a case you are!) TT quality, and play it back directly from an easy chair.

I failed to mention that I am also going to put a Tio digital amp card in the first gen box, so it would be able to drive Heritage to levels adequate for most listeners directly. Everything you need except speakers in one box!

Make it handy for those camping trips, too!

Dave

[thebes]

“Progress
is man's ability to complicate simplicity.”

Thor-Heyerdahl

“Progress
is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things”

Robert A. Heinlein

“Progress
is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies.”

Robert Francis
Kennedy

[][][]

"You'll pry my vinyl from my cold dead hands."

Thebes

[Mallette]

Well 2 out of three ain't bad, Marty.

However, the main issue I am confronting is to SIMPLIFY.

Right now, MBS5 with a touch screen enables me, my kids, and wife to easily select one or more albums and listen with just a couple of touches. As opposed to hunting for a CD or album, then changing every 20 minutes to an hour, we are able to program a whole day if we want.

One of my mantras has always been it is NOT the equipment. If I had a small box with one button that would provide excellent music, that is what I would have.

I am working on it...

Dave

[Mallette]

>"You'll pry my vinyl from my cold dead hands."

Got to thinking about that one, and it deserves not so much as a response but a clarification of my position on records. I prize my record collection highly. Many argue that playing does not significantly wear them, but I have my doubts. I KNOW that every time they are handled there is a potential for disaster. It is my desire that my collection last for many decades, even centuries. No matter how carefully handled when you look at a very long period of time accidents will happen. While I forsee "touchless" playing some day, that is a while off.

So, what is the attachment about? It's a drawing of a beach house my wife and I intend to build somehere in the 3-5 year time frame. The savvy eye will not the Klipschorns in the corners of the music room. But that is not the salient feature. That room to the south of it is where my vinyl and shellac will be stored. It is 12 inch thick steel reenforced concrete 2 stories high. Both the lower level and upper level doors will be Navy salvage watertight doors. This is, of course, not just about my records, but all our family pictures, important documents, art, and heirlooms will reside there either all the time, or be moved in before evacuating in front of a storm.

I made this a condition with my wife for building on the beach. One must assume that your house WILL be destroyed at some point by a storm. My wife wanted to live on the beach, so I designed this and said "Fine, but this is a requirement." Certainly the other objects listed had a lot to do with it, but my record collection weighed heavily (literally...consider having to move 3,000+ records in a hurry) in my thinking.

Further, with high quality DACS, unlimited cheap digital storage, and high resolution formats available I see no reason to risk my records by casual playing. Certainly I'll trot them out for audiophile visitors and occasional personal pleasure, but with the quality level of the recordings I am getting I see no reason to handle them unneccesarily.

Some of you may consider me to be a digital freak, but the fact is all my recording experiments and efforts have been to try to figure out why commercial CD's did not satisfy like records. I have answered that to my own satisfaction, and now apply what I learned towards preserving my precious ( MY Prehcheeuss!) record collection by minimizing the risk of wear or accident.

Dave

[Travis In Austin]

I want one. What did you figure the parts where going to run?

Travis

[Travis In Austin]

I made this a condition with my wife for building on the beach. One must assume that your house WILL be destroyed at some point by a storm. My wife wanted to live on the beach, so I designed this and said "Fine, but this is a requirement." Certainly the other objects listed had a lot to do with it, but my record collection weighed heavily (literally...consider having to move 3,000+ records in a hurry) in my thinking.

What you need is one of these, a hurricane proof, monolithic dome.

[Mallette]

Here is elevation. Easier to see the vinyl bunker!

As to parts cost, hard to say. First expenditure will be around 600 for the basic unit, but that is just for proof of concept and listening tests. Given I have a day job it's going to take a while, but I hope to have the basic unit working by mid-summer.

John Foley has indicated interest in helping with programming, and as I am pretty lost even with Ubuntu Linux that is going to be most helpful. I have not even looked at the embedded media Linux yet.

Lots of hills to climb yet, ONWARD, through the phogg!

I'll report as it goes...

As to the "hurricane proof" dome, I want to see one handle a 25 foort Gulf storm surge first. I know the bunker will make it, and the rest is insurable.

I do intend to have poured concrete piers, so I'll be good for all but a 100 year storm...but that storm is due.

Dave

[jtnfoley]

Tough to put a set of K-horns in that beach house! []

Yep, I'm interested. Various recording and playback options have been considered, and typical of the Linux world there are non-GUI tools for both that have been wrapped in scripts (for IR remote,) X Windows GUIs (for the touchscreen,) and even web GUIs (for remote control from another PC.)

The logic behind using non-GUI tools that have been made gooey with "wrappers" (web and X) is that the same recording and playback tools can be used regardless of interface, in keeping with Daves' interest in consistancy in recording quality.

[TheEvan]

I'm still not clear on the bunker. From the plan view it shows to be adjacent to your listening room (which appears to have Khorn fronts, Lascala center and rears and ....perhaps Heresy sides?). On the elevation is it the double doors front and center on the upper level?

Regarding teh server, count me another one who is hopelessly lost. I suppose I get the concept, but how does my collection get sucked into the creature?

[Mallette]

John:

I assume you are talking about the dome...don't know where my head was, but that is even more of a deal killer than whether or not it is hurricane proof!

Dave

[JJkizak]

I didn't know you could install Forge on Linux. Some Sony folks might want to know how you do this.

JJK

[Mallette]

I'm still not clear on the bunker. From the plan view it shows to be adjacent to your listening room (which appears to have Khorn fronts, Lascala center and rears and ....perhaps Heresy sides?). On the elevation is it the double doors front and center on the upper level?

Regarding teh server, count me another one who is hopelessly lost. I suppose I get the concept, but how does my collection get sucked into the creature?

Refer to the plan view. It is on the back of the house and opens into the music room. In the plan view the bunker top is the rail you can see just above the roofline. It will have my telescope and weather station, and a few antenna (including a cell phone repeater for inside the second floor of the bunker. I do not intend to use it as a refuge but you never know). The square with the "X" in it to the right facing the music room hall exterior door is an elevator. The PAW thinks it is for groceries and her mother, but it is really for equipment and records. As to the speakers, you are correct on the front. However, the rears are Frazier Mark V's and the sides Frazier Super Monte Carlos. The other thing on the right wall is a piano, and I may have a reed organ as well if I ever get it rebuilt.

On the server, remember this is a very basic proof of concept demonstrator. No storage on board. Ripping would be from a remote computer to a network attached storage device. Access from the MBS-7 will be via wireless network. Keep it simple to start. "Production" versions could be equipped a number of ways. An external CD/DVD/Blu-Ray burner/Player could be attached via USB, and there is room for up to a 3.5" drive inside, though the thing is tiny 8.5'X3.75"X9.5". There are "X" numbers of ways to accessorize, including a touch screen interface.

"Production" in quotes as I have no plans to market this at the moment. That will only happen if it fully proves out, is fun, and there is a demand. Initiatlly, I'd send one out on a rotation through you guys to see what you think and how it holds up. No rush, other than approaching senility and death.

Dave

[Mallette]

I didn't know you could install Forge on Linux. Some Sony folks might want to know how you do this.

JJK

Won't be Forge. As you observe, it does not run on Linux and is too much for the intended target group anyway. There are a number of excellent Linux audio utilities that can be modified to do the job.

Dave

[Travis In Austin]

Refer to the plan view. It is on the back of the house and opens into the music room. In the plan view the bunker top is the rail you can see just above the roofline. It will have my telescope and weather station, and a few antenna (including a cell phone repeater for inside the second floor of the bunker. I do not intend to use it as a refuge but you never know).

What you need to do is skip that bunker, and store your valuable vinyl collection in Austin at Casa de Williamson. The bunker is going to give you a false sense of security when the hurricanes come when you should be evaucating. What you need to do is store everything up here and that way you have good incentive to evacuate and stay with us everytime a hurricane comes.

With that bunker is it a sealed steel floor? If not, it is obviously going to leak, if so how do you keep it from floating up, Are you going to sink concrete piers under the bunker and anchor it to the piers?

Travis

[Mallette]

Travis:
All my plans are clearly labeled "NOT FOR CONSTRUCTION." Man's gotta know his limitations. We have lots of folks in the bay area that know how to handle these things. I am sure I'll have a separate contractor for the bunker and the support piers.

Thanks for the offer. I'll think it over...

BTW, I think I pinged you a while back about my Sony RR. I'd have to check on the model, but it is a 10" 33/4-7.5 that apparently has electronic holdback tension. I've been able to fix everything except the holdback. Wish it were just a band with a screw like my old Akai 4000D! I am having to place a felt weight on the supply reel to play because it doesn't supply enough tension. Total nuisance, but it sounds great otherwise. Can't complain...paid 25.00 for it.

Any thoughts?

Dave