Mallette Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Well the MBS-7 will have to wait. For one thing, the venerable MBS-5 still works just fine. For another, I could not resist the Korg MR-1. There are two major questions to answer. First, the general qualities of the recording. It is hard to take this Ipod sized thingy seriously considering the big and heavy machines I've used over the years in field recording. However, I am open minded and see no reason why it cannot be first class. Second, transcoding from 1 bit 2.86mhz (SACD) to CD and other formats. In theory, it should be quite transparent but for the loss of information. I don't really have a good source of live music at the moment, so I am not sure what I'll test with. There is a hurricane off Yucatan...that may offer some possibilities...though I'd prefer a nice pipe organ. I'll likely be traveling to the midlands of England in the next couple of months so I may find "targets of opportunity" there. In the meantime, I'll probably transfer some of my own recordings to it to see how they play back. The little stereo mike is cute. Hard to take it seriously, but you never know. I am assuming they have a cardioid pattern and are 90 degrees opposed. I am assuming cardioid as their was a piece of paper included saying they are for "ambience" and L/R balance might need to be adjusted if the source is close. I would have prefered a polar pattern graph... Anyway, I have a couple of small Beyer ribbons that will be just dandy for travel use. Besides all the above, this thing will be really nice for carrying music to hornhead fests and such, assuming the playback qualities are good as I hope. All will be fun to check out... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Kennedy Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Looking forward to your reviews of this ... I have been looking a bit a getting a good recorder ... The Sony looks real neat to .. what is it PC-50 ... or something like that I would just use it for amateur recording, so can't justify too large of a cost .... seems like there are some coming in at $300 which have less features .. Wonder what the quality of those are like?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 Outside of size and price, the main audiophile benefit here is the 1 bit 2.8mhz format. In theory, this should allow lossless transcoding to any PCM format. I rec'd the unit at work so have not yet tried it on my system. However, playback of the supplied sample files suggests it will fair very well. You can tell you are listening to a very clean, very high resolution sound. I have severe doubts the onboard mike preamps will rival my VT preamps...but I have hopes they'll be good enough for traveling where the VT is not an option. More as it develops... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Dave, could you give me a brief explanation of what a Music server is ? I have no idea, really, I don't .... I just found out you don't need film in a Digital Camera ................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 Dave, could you give me a brief explanation of what a Music server is ? I have no idea, really, I don't .... I just found out you don't need film in a Digital Camera ................ Be happy to try, Buckmeister. Actually, it is a challenge. "Digital Music Player" might be a better term for a lot of us as we prefer to store and serve our music remotely, both for space and safety. MBS-5 started live as a server, but now I get the music files from a TeraStation via wireless network so I can minimize noise on the unit itself and have a fanless power supply since I am running only a system drive. So, a DMP, or digital music player, is a computer-based device with a high quality sound card or chipset that is not format specific. It can play any PCM format from mp3 to 24/192, surround formats discrete or encoded, and even SACD though this is likely to be through a transcode software like AudioGate. Advantages are that you can get far superor sound from sound cards like Card Deluxe for a lot less than in dedicated players, plus you get random access with no fiddle factor. Some players can include notes and cover art for a display, and waveform displays and such. Through online services you get artist, title, time, and other information on the vast majority of CD's automatically. Free software will transfer losslessly from CD to hard drive at several times play speed. Analog collectors can make CD's and high res copies of their material as well as denoise them. About the only use my CD player gets is when someone visits or I get a new CD. All my digital resides on my file server. Hope that helps... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Dave, could you give me a brief explanation of what a Music server is ? to me, a music server is when I'm sitting back in my easy chair and OldBuckster is standing at my side, asking me what I'd like to hear next...then he makes it so, followed by him going out to the kitchen and squeezing me some fresh lemonaid while also taking my fluffy dogs out for a walk in the humidity. [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 to me, a music server is when I'm sitting back in my easy chair and OldBuckster is standing at my side, asking me what I'd like to hear next...then he makes it so, followed by him going out to the kitchen and squeezing me some fresh lemonaid while also taking my fluffy dogs out for a walk in the humidity. Right after I put on THE ROLLING STONES; EXILE ON MAIN STREET on so your Jubilees know what good music sounds like. Some sugar in that Lemonade ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 to me, a music server is when I'm sitting back in my easy chair and OldBuckster is standing at my side, asking me what I'd like to hear next...then he makes it so, followed by him going out to the kitchen and squeezing me some fresh lemonaid while also taking my fluffy dogs out for a walk in the humidity. Right after I put on THE ROLLING STONES; EXILE ON MAIN STREET on so your Jubilees know what good music sounds like. Some sugar in that Lemonade ????? I think it would be pretty tough even for OB to get Richard to take that Marie Osmond off his player[] LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I think it would be pretty tough even for OB to get Richard to take that Marie Osmond off his player LOL Ok (punk) that really did have me laughing aloud... [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 The Korg MR looks like fun. I want one. Where in the midlands are you going? My mother is from Oswestry close to Shrewsbury in Shropshire. Beautiful area. If you hit Birmingham they have a great live music scene. I have been there many times and always have fun. Nowadays I try to get to Palm trees and blue water. I can think of many pub experiences I would want to have a mobile recorder for instance two members of Cheiftans started playing in a pub in Limerick Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I think it would be pretty tough even for OB to get Richard to take that Marie Osmond off his player LOL Ok (punk) that really did have me laughing aloud... I thought it was Alvin and the Chipmunks Christmas album he was hooked on [6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Dave, you don't mean this old MR-1, do ya?[*-)] Analog all the way, baby! If I'm not mistaken, I believe Roland, Tascam, Sony and M-Audio also make these iPod-size field recorders. Don't ya just miss the good ol' days when you'd cart around a bulky Marantz, Nakamichi, or Nagra pro recorder outside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever55 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 to me, a music server is when I'm sitting back in my easy chair and OldBuckster is standing at my side, asking me what I'd like to hear next...then he makes it so, followed by him going out to the kitchen and squeezing me some fresh lemonaid while also taking my fluffy dogs out for a walk in the humidity. Right after I put on THE ROLLING STONES; EXILE ON MAIN STREET on so your Jubilees know what good music sounds like. Some sugar in that Lemonade ????? With the right music those Jubilees could squeeze the lemons.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Was I the guy in a red devil suit on your shoulder? I took it along to a weekend-long music festival I've been going to for about 12 years now. I got it Tuesday at work, charged the battery that night and packed it away to leave the next day straight from work. The 36 or so hours that transpired following the end of the next work day were somewhat adventure-filled, involving a nearby goat roast, Heineken, Amish coffee (not recommended), more than a few mandolins, Heineken, a red accordian, only one banjo (thank heaven for small mercys), Heineken (or was it bourbon?), and a frattoir that sounded like it was crashing from the hills back at us as. Thursday somehow slipped into Friday and the now-familiar settling in process for the 40 hours of music (among other things) available to us. It wasn't until about 1 am Saturday that I got around to breaking out the Korg. The little thing was really a joy to use and executes commands pretty quickly. I think the pres sound reasonably clean, and played nicely with the Apex 215 ribbons as well as the 460 that just got treated to a couple '58 Bugle Boy ECC82. USB transfer is fast enough and simple as can be. I got around 3-4 hours of music in WSD mode 1-bit and while the recording techniques were not entirely succesful, I can hear what this technology is bringing to the table and it's for real. Multi-track will be phenomenal when it happens. The analog I/O seems to sound really good as well. I'm glad they didn't compromise too much on that. It does add a fair amount to the cost of the unit and this seems to be done well, at least in my limited time with it. 16/44.1 sounds good so far, but I haven't compared it to anything yet. I don't suppose I'll be going to any great lengths to A/B between wav sources, but I'm not hearing anything grungy or objectionable. I do plan to listen carefully to as much as I can of the hi-res material, as it is just very nice to listen to. Dave, I'm going to try to send you a PM or email regarding USB sticks and padded envelopes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share Posted July 22, 2008 Took MR-1 home and hooked it up. Put on the Will Champlin sample file "Downtime." SWEET. Voice was clear and pure, and, at first, I thought I'd met my match at piano recording. A few more bars and I realized it was synth piano. Probably the best I've ever heard, but synth nonetheless. OTOH, the sounds were pure and sweet and something to shoot for when recording the real thing. The piano was nicely contained between the center and left, but Willy seemed to be about 5 feet or so to the left of the piano...long arms, I guess. However, there is no question in my mind that the Korg is Ipod for the audiophile and offers at minimum a great means to carry high quality music anywhere. This is a beautifully crafted device that feels good in the hand. All shiny metal and nice heft. Of course, I've got to try out the mike preamps. I am skeptical...but then all real audiophiles are. I was skeptical of the playback...and now I am not. We shall see... Ben, you have PM. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivendell61 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 The MR-1s slightly bigger brother, the MR-1000, has been voluminously discussed in pro recording forums since hitting US shores c. April 2007. Mainly quite favorably. There was a question in the other recent Korg thread about burning an SACD from the MR-1 DSD file: you can not, must create a Scarlet Book file and have it pressed--really not feasible. But.....see here:http://www.ps3sacd.com/dsddiscguide.html here:http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,89333.0.html and here:http://www.ps3sacd.com/downloads/DSDDiscFormatSpecs.pdf I'm not too clear on playback options for DSD Disks but I think the newer Sony VAIOs can do it--and PS3s (only at 2.8 mH the rate, not 5.6), there may be other ways.....one of those links above seems to have a plug-in for playing DSD Discs on Windows Media Player. The included Audiogate software does--from reports--seem to contain a fairly good decimator, so going right to PCM may be without much loss. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 >The included Audiogate software does--from reports--seem to contain a fairly good decimator, so going right to PCM may be without much loss. Definitely my hope. Can't see any reason why there should be. I re-visited SACD authoring and it didn't take long to determine nothing had changed. They are determined to kill off a fine format by ensuring no one can afford to do it except those who don't care. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorcilantro Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Fascinating article regarding DSD & PCM: http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?referrerid=47402&t=179930 I'm considering a Lavry AD-10 for vinyl archiving (I currently use an EMU1212M(. The Korg MR-1000 is interesting, and while cheaper than the Lavry, the AD-10 will be easier workflow going right into the EMU1212 optical at 24/96 and right into Wavelab. I keep vinyl archives at 24/96 with minor noise reduction if needed (no normalization or compression). The MR-1000 conversion from DSD to PCM is probably overkill for my little archiving project, and even the AD-10 probably is. However, the MR-1000 can record PCM at 24/96 as well so maybe I should consider. I do like the idea of the Lavry avoiding USB and using optical though, which facilitates the aformentioned workflow, and avoids the pitfalls of USB. DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 28, 2008 Author Share Posted July 28, 2008 Two questions: Why the big MR-1000? While I am sure the specs are slightly better (I don't know this, just assuming), I rather doubt it is anything audible for archiving LP's. Second, why 24/96? I rather doubt the difference between that and 88.2 is audible, and have to assume that 176.4 is superior, and either of these leave lossless downsampling to 44.1 for CD's as an option. For that matter, why not archive at 1 bit, 2.8mhz? The PAW and I did an A/B and could not distinguish a Crystal Clear direct disc LP cut by one of the best engineers who ever donned headphones and this format on the MR-1, and my transcoding to PCM appears to be lossless. Just curious. When money allows, I am going for a Sound Devices 744T. I do not expect it to sound all that much better, but it is built like a tank for field use and has all the extras I need for location recording. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorcilantro Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 EMU doesn't offer 88kHz nor 176. Playback goes out to a DAC1 and I find that 24/96 is a pragmatic medium and a good compromise. 1. I can leave these files as is, and avoid any dithering or sample conversion reducing my workload. 2. If burning, I can convert on the fly with J. River's DSP and while I agree that 88 would avoid any errors, I'm confident I'm not going to notice them. 3. The CD is almost dead. (even though I still love casette and CD mixes) I upsample all digital audio to 24/96 for playback, I do it mainly because I'm lazy. People argue it can push the noise floor up futher out of range, but doing this I can have native 24/96 material played back with any resampling and the rest is upsampled. It's also painless to do with J. River for audio and FFDshow for video (with low cpu usage for both). Other wise EMU patchmix has to be changed manually to 24/96. The AD-10 is probably big time overkill for vinyl archiving but I've got my hands on a pretty nice phonograph system. dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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