Billie Holiday in Tulsa

[Gilbert]

Some time back (year or more), Allan made a post on a Billie Holiday thread and also posted some lyric's to one of her songs. I fell in love and here I am today adding her to my collection.

I came across some of her old, really really old LP's that looked and appeared to be in very good condition. There are 4 records on various lables. Lables include Commodore, Columbia and Okeh. All records are 78 rpm format, recorded from the late 1930's and early 1940's. All 4 records are contained in a book type album; Open the book and you find 4 sleeves with 4 records. The records are quite heavy, stiffer than a 200g LP or anything else I've ever seen. They remind me of my grandmothers swing style orchestra records.

Songs include:

On Columbia record 1: "Them There Eyes" and "Body And Soul"

On Columbia record 2: "Am I Blue" and "Long Gone Blues"

On the Commodore lable: "Strange Fruit" and "Fine And Mellow"

On OKeh lable: "God Bless The Child" and "Solitude"

I have a couple a questions to ask those familiar with these old recordings. I'm playing these records on a Thorens TD124 with Ortofon SPU set at 3.5 grams tracking force. Every record plays straight through without skipping a beat, but there is quite a bit of background noise or hiss. Can this background noise be overcome or minimized with a properly set-up mono cartridge? I assume the noise is the result of the recording process, because the records appear to be in too good a condition. They still have a shiny gloss to them, and I even tried cleaning them with a warm damp sponge, but they still played the same.

Any thoughts?

What is the best source to buy her music from?

[Mallette]

Oh my God, you got some treasures there. Send'em down to Houston and I'll record them right for you... []

Don't really have time to go into the details, but you need to at least have a mono switch on a preamp to play them with less noise. I use a Stanton with a 78 stylus at 6 grams. My 78's sound often better than many CD's. There is generally more noise, but the presence of these old records when done right is extraordinary.

More later...

Dave

[HarryO]

Great music from Billie Holliday.

I've got a half dozen CDs of her recordings. Even a couple in HDCD that sound great.

Great find.

Mono set up is a must for these old treasures.

I was lucky enough to score 4 of Mallette's cd recordings from vinyl at the Pilgrimage. He does some fantastic work.

Harry

[fenderbender]

Hey Gilbert:

you are one lucky dude!!!! Those are some nice 78's congrats......

[Gilbert]

Dave, do you think my SPU could be causing the problem (or part of?)?

My preamp is a Blueberry, and I started off playing these with the mono on, but after reading your thread, I decided to switch it between Stere & Mono, just for the sake of hearing the difference, but I'm sorry to say, I couldn't tell a bit of difference, at least not with respect to the background hiss thing. The music is certainly audible, but the hissing is descracting. Man, Billie's voice is smooth as silk.

[oldtimer]

Some records can look great but still have a lot of noise. From the condition you describe you have probably heard them as best as they will play without some massaging by someone like mallette.

[Mallette]

Dave, do you think my SPU could be causing the problem (or part of?)?

My preamp is a Blueberry, and I started off playing these with the mono on, but after reading your thread, I decided to switch it between Stere & Mono, just for the sake of hearing the difference, but I'm sorry to say, I couldn't tell a bit of difference, at least not with respect to the background hiss thing. The music is certainly audible, but the hissing is descracting. Man, Billie's voice is smooth as silk.

Well, your stylus HAS to be 2.7-3 mil spherical r you will basically be crashing back and forth between walls. I am still pretty tied up, but would like to work with you to try to get these right. Bear in mind that they may have belonged to someone who treasured them and took good care of the...but listened to them a lot. Much more so than today even the best available cartridges and needles caused significant wear.

Dave

[Frzninvt]

An easy way to remove some unwanted background noise or hiss is to use an DBX SNR-1 Single Ended Noise Reduction Unit as it does so without robbing from the highs. You can set the Threshold wherever it performs best, it can remove up to 40db of noise and hiss from the background allowing you to enjoy the music. It will not however assist with any pop, tick or click removal you will need a Burwen Research unit to do that.

The DBX SNR-1's typically sell for sub $100 on eBay with some regularity, the 3BX-DS 3-Band Dynamic Range Controller also performs as a noise gate and would also work sell but it sells for substantially more than the SNR-1 that is designed to do what you are looking to accomplish.

Less than 15 hours left on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DBX-SNR-1-SINGLE-SOURCE-NOISE-REDUCTION_W0QQitemZ150289303888QQihZ005QQcategoryZ23793QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The BSR equivalent of this unit is the DAK1 if you really want to get cheap, I would opt for the DBX model myself either unit is cheap enough to try.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BSR-DAK1-Variable-Frequency-Noise-Reduction-System_W0QQitemZ310080049859QQihZ021QQcategoryZ14978QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Mallette]

As frzn knows, I am a DVX maven. However, I find that digital noise reduction is the better way to go for such things. If you don't like it, you can undo it. The NX plugin for Sound Forge is excellent. It is quite complex but well worth learning curve and since it is non-destructive and reversable you can keep at until you get it the way you like it.

There are others out there but my experience is with Sound Forge and the results are excellent.

However, from what you said I am not certain that a lot of your noise is not from playback issues that should be resolved before worrying with post processing. My best 78's don't need no stinkn' processing. They are already better than a lot of the crap that is passed off as "CD quality" these days.

Dave

[Gilbert]

Talked with some people, my SPU is not adequate for playing 78 rpm'ers, still researching, but I've talked at least to a couple of TT guru's. One from needledoctor.

Thanks for the input Dave, but I now feel like a bloodhound on a hot trail.

[fini]

C'mon Gilbert, 78s aren't LPs...fun though!

[Mallette]

Talked with some people, my SPU is not adequate for playing 78 rpm'ers, still researching, but I've talked at least to a couple of TT guru's. One from needledoctor.

Thanks for the input Dave, but I now feel like a bloodhound on a hot trail.

You need not break the bank to get to about 90% of getting the stuff off the discs in good order. 50.00 or so for a Dual or similar vintage TT with 78 speed and a cartridge (Shure or Stanton, a few others) for which you can get a 78 rpm stylus, and a preamp like http://www.phonopreamps.com/#78 for 65.00 or so that allows for something closer than RIAA for the older discs. Even assuming you have to buy a new cartridge you can be in the business of hearing what the old timers had to offer for less than 200.00 shekels starting from scratch.

I had an IT type with no audiophile pretensions at all who was visiting my office on a project over over to my house last night. His jaw literally dropped when he heard Kid Ory (80 year old disc) and then he nearly went apoplectic when heard Bill Haley and the Comets off a 78. He said what passed for a music system (he makes good money and has an HT system with CD player) did not sound remotely that good. He went on and on to the guys who were trying to sell us a Learning Management System about it the next day.

Some folks get it, some folks just hear surface noise. I hear great music you can't get any other way.

Dave

[Allan Songer]

Talked with some people, my SPU is not adequate for playing 78 rpm'ers, still researching, but I've talked at least to a couple of TT guru's. One from needledoctor.

Thanks for the input Dave, but I now feel like a bloodhound on a hot trail.

STOP PLAYING YOUR 78s with your SPU!! You are RUINING them--you may have ALREADY ruined them even with only one or two plays! The itty pitty LP stylus is slamming back and forth in the grooves and is destroying the VERY BRITTLE shellac discs!

BUT! You can buy a BRAND NEW SPU that has a .65mm conical stylus that you can play them with. Around $375 from Mr. Juki. I just sold a nice ORIGINAL mono 78 SPU on ebay for $250 that needed to be rebuilt. I have one that HAS been rebuilt and I pull it out from time to time and have a 1 or 2 day "78 party."