LarryC

I'm sliding in here without reading everyone's posts up to now, but I don't think the amount of power available has much of anything to do with the issue. Pardon me if others have raised this, but have you checked for your Fortes being in phase, and for whether your individual drivers are in phase within each speaker and between your speakers? You can really hear out-of-phasenss by the tendency of the speakers, or of some drivers, to seem to (a.) want to pull your ears apart, or (b.) a tendency of the volume level to drop as you walk around the speakers. If the character of the blending changes when you walk around the speaker or speakers, then something might be out of phase. Speakers out of phase will lose a lot of bass! You need to have an expert hi-fi listener come over to your place. Don't you have quite a few of those around your parts?

I haven't seen it. It seems to have been a tragedy of errors and symptomatic of Hillary's rather loose management of State (kind of like her poorly managed 2008 campaign). Senior State officials that should have been weeded out before Benghazi left afterward. That's one key thing about Hillary that bothers me. That said, a movie that would encourage propaganda and spinning by the all-expert Republican message-misters is almost certain to turn into a propaganda piece. The following two paragraphs from Wiki illustrate some accuracy in telling part of the story, but the debunked claim that State ordered the fighters to "stand down" -- a ridiculous lie designed to claim that Democrats want to lose to the country's enemies. Judge for yourself [from Wiki]: Critical response... ...Soren Andersen, writing for The Seattle Times, gave the film 3 stars out of 4, criticizing the lack of distinctive characters but ultimately summarizing 13 Hours as "engrossing" and "a ground-level depiction of heroism in the midst of the fog of war."Richard Roeper similarly praised 13 Hours in his review for the Chicago Sun-Times. Although he lamented the script, Roeper found the film to be a "solid action thriller with well-choreographed battle sequences and strong work from the ensemble cast." Like Roeper's review, New York Daily News' Joe Dziemianowicz was less receptive towards the script, but applauded the film's focus on the real-life attack, summarizing: "War is gritty here, not glamorous... [Michael Bay] delivers a gripping, harrowing, and heartfelt film."[42] In a mixed review, Inkoo Kang of TheWrap praised 13 Hours for its action scenes, but panned Bay's direction as "myopic". She writes: "13 Hours is the rare Michael Bay movie that wasn't made with teenage boys in mind. But that doesn't make his latest any less callously juvenile." Lindsey Bahr of the Associated Press was critical of the film's direction and cinematography, and found the screenplay to be confusing. Similarly, The Economist described the film as "a sleek, poorly scripted and largely meaningless film." Historical accuracy[edit] The film's historical accuracy has been disputed. In the film's most controversial scene, the CIA chief in Benghazi (identified only as "Bob") tells the military contractors there, who seek permission to go defend the embassy, to "stand down", thus denying them permission. The real-life CIA chief stated that there was no stand-down order. His statement was echoed by the bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee's finding that there was "no evidence of intentional delay or obstruction by the Chief of Base or any other party." Kris "Tonto" Paronto, a CIA contractor was involved in action during the event, has claimed "We were told to 'stand down'. Those words were used verbatim — 100 percent. ... If the truth of it affects someone's political career? Well, I'm sorry. It happens." Paronto has been accused of fabricating his account in order to make money, because he "had a book to sell and a movie to help promote." The CIA base chief portrayed in the film has directly contradicted Paronto's claims, stating, "There never was a stand-down order... At no time did I ever second-guess that the team would depart." Also disputed is the film's portrayal that air support was denied. A House Armed Services report found that air support was unavailable, or it would have arrived too late to make a difference. Commentator David French defended the film's references to air support, writing that even if resources could not have been flown in during the time available, this would itself be "scandalous", given Libya's known instability.... ...Zack Beauchamp of Vox criticized the film overall, writing that its depiction of the alleged stand-down order and the availability of air support indirectly promoted "pernicious conspiracy theories" that President Obama and/or Secretary Clinton did not want the embassy to be defended.

Call 'em up and ask, but it's probably expensive. there was a recent thread about saving boxes -- it partly boiled down to whether one has the space (attic, garage, spare rooms in the house), and whether you think you'll ever have reason to ship or move them. Having the boxes and protective packing might be an advantage, if so. However, they will take up a lot of space both in storing the boxes and having them transported. Might depend on the quality of your local movers.

I thoroughly agree re the CAT SL-1, very clean and three-dimensional. Its build quality and even the packaging are superlative. Gain matching with LOMC carts and Klipsch efficiency has been a problem although recent models have n improved gain structure. It should be auditioned in your system for noise compatibility. The ARC SP-11 has been somewhat infamous for its thin sound in the bass, so you must audition it as well. I suggest you add Joule Electra preamps. Earlier models were the LA-100 and LAP-150, the latter adding a phono stage. They are no longer made, as Jud Barber has retired. The electronic build quality is excellent, while the physical structure and build quality are indifferent at best. I like the Joule in my system (an LAP-150) at least as well as any other preamp I have heard. Those who have heard and like my system should know that its linearity and clarity are due in no small part to the preamp. Joule pre's come in various configurations and chassis arrangements, so you need to understand just what you are looking at. I do, however, believe they're among the good preamps around.

Marty referred to the last movement of the Holst, Neptune. This is an amazing work, with mystical, far-away effects of soft low trumpets, complex passages on the two harps and celesta (keyboard bell-like, used in Tchaikovsky's dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy), and strings varying between sustained notes and arpeggios (rapid crossing of the strings producing widely-spaced notes), The women's voices and scoring are incredible. This was THE prototype for space music then in the future. (The Planets was written in around 1914.) Here is a very nice video of Neptune:

This was a unique and outstanding concert, not at all what I expected. The opening work, Water Concerto by the Chinese composer Tan Dun (who now lives in the U.S.), was an incredibly complicated, demanding work that had to be a nightmare for the composer to set down in score as well as extremely difficult to play. All kinds of cacophony was constantly erupting, including splashing of water in the large baths Marty described so well. After the concert, Strathmore had to call out an entire housekeeping crew to mop and sponge up all the water spilled on the stage. I doubt that the wooden stage could take a lot of that over the years! The next piece, Earth, was composed by the technically accomplished American composer Libby Larsen. It conveyed nothing about our planet or its history, and of course had no astrological guidance like Holst had for the other 7 planets that he knew of. Holst knew what he was doing when he by-passed our indescribable planetary home. Understandably, Holst never composed another large work in this style. He was wise to quit when he was ahead with a work that could not have been equaled by anyone We got to hear what a real, complete orchestra can do with Holst's masterpiece, one of the great works of the 20th century. For one thing, unlike the National Philharmonic's perf of a decade ago, ALL the instruments that Holst intended were present and accounted for -- the bass oboe, alto flute, and contrabassoon for starters. These are expensive instruments to hire, and the Nat Phil obviously cut corners. The BSO also has superlative string players, including Jonathan Carney, the concertmaster, with his magical Strad that Marty mentioned, and the equally outstanding cellist, Dariusz Skoraczewski, on his highly-regarded Testore cello. The Planets has some solo work for both these instruments, and the BSO was right up there at the top with those soloists. On the whole, the BSO is a fine orchestra, with relative weaknesses in the woodwinds, but outstanding in the brass and strings. This is an example of how an excellent concertmaster can pull the entire string section of the orchestra to a very high and congruent whole. Better than the National Symphony IMO. We really didn't know how great this concert would turn out to be. More forum members should consider joining us the next time we announce a doozy like this one.

Database error on the last page of this thread: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/158435-trump/page-6 I did a quick look before trying to posting, didn't see any spaces ... No problem, I'm not interested in trying the post again. Clearly I can post this one

I hear greater differences between amplifiers than between preamplifiers at the extremes of their respective spectra. Still, a truly second- or third-rate preamp can really lower the listenability and amount of pleasure of a system. Ditto the amplifier. In truth, they serve different functions. Thus, the question as posed is like asking which is more important, the cartridge or the electronics, and that question is ultimately unresolvable nonsense. The question also presumes that it's either one or the other, and that the other contender doesn't contribute as much to the system. I would disagree with that -- both are critical. If your choice of preamp is a poor one, then that is the most critical. If your amp choice is not good, that becomes the more critical component. So, the answer IMO is "both," and the question is basically unanswerable in the abstract, in terms of one or the other.

Exactly right, Garyrc. Only classical keeps my attention over time. I judge system quality by how well it reproduces instruments and voices in classical music.

What are you replacing them with? -- Larry

Great clarifying comment, Chris! Often, changes in a component will cause the listener to hear some new detail, that he/she hadn't heard or noted before. This may cause that listener to believe that he/she is hearing greater detail, and that it's better. However, going back and listening some more may reveal that UNNOTICED details are no longer as audible, or are distorted in some way. It's harder to incorporate the perspective of what's not there into one's opinion. This is why listening to new components should be extended and take a while on a variety of sound source material, IMHO.

As we subsequently discussed, whether something is an "upgrade" or not is in the eye of the beholder. If it's not a product made by the manufacturer that is specifically held out to be an upgrade, it may be presumptuous to declare it so. I have heard a few such items that do sound quite good, and quite a few that do not. To avoid disappointment, you should be sure to listen to a proffered upgrade to form your own opinion, or at the very least, find someone whose ears you trust to recommend for (or not) the new product. I was simply cautioning against jumping into something that someone has flippantly called an "upgrade." It may not be. I don't automatically come down against non-Klipsch products. I am, however, skeptical, especially if it hasn't undergone the extensive engineering and testing that have been behind Klipsch products for many years. I think that's true of the AK-4 kits which have been very satisfactory to me. I've heard and liked a few other non-Klipsch mid-horns and X-overs that sound like real music to me. It sounds like you take the same approach. IOW, a few grains of skepticism are warranted in some of these things.

dp

No one does "upgrades" for Klipsch, and you should not think that Volti, good as it is, is in any way an upgrade to Klipsch. Volti is a separate and unrelated company.

Hi -- I have not experimented with what I'd call "aftermarket" items like Volti and Fastlane -- no idea how those would actually sound. Several years ago, I did a Klipsch upgrade -- the AK-4 kit, around 2003 or 2005. In fact, my kit serial nos. were 001 and 002. Each one consisted of a new K-77 tweeter, a new MR K-55 driver, a new bass bin panel door with a complete AK-4 X-over, and new pre-cut to length Monster Cable (used by Klipsch at the time -- I replaced all that with Siltech silver speaker wire). The woofer stayed the same, a current Klipsch K-33. This is a fully Klipsch-engineered x-over and treble drivers setup, a point worth noting IMO. The problem I was trying to solve in my 1962 K-horns was poor blending through the entire range, between the bass and mid-range in particular. After having dealt with this issue for many years, I was gratified to find that the AK-4 completely resolved it. I tried the Crites tweeters later on, but found less blending between the tweeter and midrange. A misconnection was possible in that effort, but it was a relief to switch back to the K-77. While a few people on the forum have raised issues about the KK-4, most who switched appear to have been very satisfied. SIlversport has continued to praise it since his installation. I posted a lengthy thread on the bass horn and AK-4, which is still online. Hunt for something like "Restoring the bass horn in a pair of 1962 K-horns." I think it's worth reading, especially if your K's still have the woofer mounting board from the late '60's and late '70's. Unfortunately, the pictures were deleted in a software changeover, but I can probably locate them if you really need them. See https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/38719-restoring-the-standard-bass-horn-throat-in-a-62-pair-of-klipschorns/ I hope this helps. It would be good for you to listen to whatever changes you're about to choose if you can. Clearly I believe the AK-4 can avoid some of the issues associated with other upgrades, some of which I frankly didn't like as much.

In sound quality, or just looks? What is the sonic difference, if so, and how was it done?

Hi Chad, I'm still getting "database error" in p. 4of the thread https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/158435-trump/page-3, and I can't do a reply to a post on p. 3 of the thread. I still don't understand what I've been doing wrong. I do copy certain URL's, but what am I supposed to look for? Just spaces? Do I just delete such a space if I see it (and think of it)?

Boy, what an improvement! all the above are true IMO. Even the dubious green looks much better with the larger seal and more standout gold graphics. I still don't like that green ... The color matching still doesn't catch on for me, and I wonder if a little time with a color expert could help -- complementary colors, etc. Maybe color consultation would could help spill over to the other pages. And, still no definition or tie-in to the term "swampdoodle." That term and the page just hang there without said tie-in. IOW, still not much continuity from page to page.

I'm really sorry you're having those kinds of problems with such excellent equipment. Although I don't have much experience with those components, I haven't noticed problem boominess from the 1 or 2 Cornscala I've heard. What is the shape of your listening room? Are any staircases involved, either up or down, from your listening room? Is it possible to insert a room diagram in a post? What cartridge are you using?

This is a FINE performance on Youtube by the University of California at Davis:

I agree, and I think Carmina might be the Strathmore concert of the year! What do others think? Should this be the next group Strathmore outing? If we got enough interest, I could ask about opening those the sensational Promenade Right Front 1st balcony seating. I doubt we would be successful, but who knows?... Is the Saturday, May 20 date OK for most people? Too often in the past, we've had major days like Father's Day interfere with interest in attending. Does everyone know Carmina Burana? One of the absolutely great masterpieces of the 20th century, accessible to those with any and all interests in music -- not just a classical war-horse.

Note that the front HF panel even lacks the tweeter cutouts, so it's not ready for restoring the original configuration. As much as the time alignment was not good in the original design, this has nowhere the elegance of PWK's design. It shows IMO.

Whether they're even worth 600 would depend on how they sound, but I agree with Tom -- too many unknowns. Someone tried to time-align the tweeters and mid's with that strange elevated holder at the back of the top hat. For all anyone knows, the previous owner may have tried to experiment with drivers and Xovers, too. Very chancy, and too crude! Find a better pair and put your money there, is my suggestion.

Please let me know if anyone is especially interested in one or more of these concerts. I can look into group rates and seating arrangements. We can do a pre-concert dinner, which is always fun. -- Larry

After a few years of lackluster programming, the National Philharmonic (a smallish but well-led regional orchestra) is presenting some good programs during the upcoming 2016-2017 season at the Strathmore Music Center in Bethesda, MD. Klipsch fans and friends have enjoyed several memorable concerts there, beginning with The Planets about 10 years ago. The only recent downside is the conductor's closing the sensationally close balcony seats, so we now have to make do with choice Orchestra and "Promenade Box Seats" that are close to the stage. Here are selected highlights: Sept. 17, 2016 -- Beethoven, 7th Symphony October 8, 2016 -- Vivaldi, Four Seasons Piazzolla, The Four Seasons of Buenos Aires This remarkable work by the great tango composer is well worth hearing. January 14, 2017 -- Bach, Double Concerto for Two Violins in D minor January 28, 2017 -- Dvorak, Symphony No. 8 March 18, 2017 -- Brahms, Requiem Leshnoff, Zohar Jonathan Leshnoff is my music and composition teacher! April 1, 2017 -- Mozart, Piano Concerto No. 23 Symphony No. 40 April 22, 2017 -- Mussorgsky/Ravel, Pictures at an Exhibition May 20, 2017 -- Orff, Carmina Burana