ClaudeJ1

Indeed. CAD data is always perfect, but to actually MAKE something in the real world requires impefections knowns as "tolerance" which is a very good word indeed, from all aspects of philosophy, human temperance, and mechanics, LOL. Glad to see you are taking a careful approach with good tool and PRACTICING your technique.

OK, so have you tried a test tone CD..........say, from 10 Hz. to 100 Hz? BTW, this is a FULL 3 1/2 octaves below LaScala so-called bass.

Whem I put the mike in the horn mouth, it was RULER flat from 20-60 Hz. At my sweet spot, with room gain, it goes down to -6 db at 18 Hz. and -10 db at 15 Hz., which is still useable. Room has a peak at 25 Hz. and the response starts to rise at 70 Hz. but I cross at 80 Hz. via Audyssey setup

Well it's the same footprint laying down, and having a larger cone area helps, and a front loaded horn only. I'd be curious about the comparison, although, since my TH sub rocks the house, I'm sure the F-20 has similar performance in many regards. BTW, I don't use an inductor with mine, it's BS. It doesn't roll off the high end at all and messes up the response of "the good part" more that it should, so me buying that recommended inductor was a waste of time and money.

I ran my wire on the opposite side from where this guy did it to keep it short, but this is the one I built..........super easy.............30x60 dimension, just like the F-20, but completely different design................18- foot long tapped horn.

This is a taller version of my coffee table sub, which is a tapped horn with a LAB12 driver. This is about 6" thicker with the same footprint. Mine goes down to 15Hz. with room gain in my sweet spot. I haven't tried an efficiency measurement, but how efficient is an F-20?

You can build my "coffe table" tapped horn sub using a LAB12 for $300. Much easier than anything else here and it goes down very low................15-18 hz.

Every speaker has a sweet spot when set up right. I listen at those same levels all the time, except through a 2" throat 1133 driver on a K402 horn, so you can imagine the detail and ridiculously low distortion as well. You are on the right track with the LS. All you have to do is EQ out the 130 Hz. peak and you are all set.

It's a lot to ask of a Khorn with a K33, but not a LaScala or FH-1 with a K43, which easily goes beyond 600 Hz.........the other woofer I would try would be a freshly reconed EVM 15L.

OK, so how did it sound and measure?

Garry Gillum did 1/2 the work with PWK on the MWM and shares the patent. When he left Klipsch, he started building MWM speakers for John Allen (along with Heresy's and LaScalas). He even sold drivers to Klispch when they lost a source. His son developed the 555 bass bin which he claims approaches the Khorn in performance, but it looks like a large LaScala. Gary is the one that added the braces on the bass bin.

I'm pretty sure you could use a BGW 1000 to drive drills or arc welders. The guy I got my original MWMs bins from had six MWMs (3 per channel) and LaScalas on top, all in parallel with one of those. He rocked the neighborhoods for sure.

FYI, the components your got ALL come from different sources and were made in different years, including the cabinets. But they were all tested and curved perfectly to Klipsch standards and specs by me. This is why they sounded perfect when you put them together, which was my original intent of course.........I love it when a plan comes together, even if it's executed by another who appreciates their quality.

It's a very good sounding horn, but you need the usual passive or active compensation for the Constant Directivity at hight frequencies. My bottom bins are not true FH-1's but SP-1 bins with the treble section cut off, which I sold to a friend for his active networked bass reflex cabs. I have a spare pair of SP-1 Xovers for a LaScala type K33 or K43 woofer and the MX-1 or SP-1 top end, which can accomodate a whole bunch of different 1" screw-in drivers, or bolt-on drivers with screw-in adapters. They have the built in compensation curve, So if anyone here ever needs them, just let me know. They can be had pretty cheap since I did my own xovers for the MB-1's, JBL's, and now, the K402's.

The HR9040 basic design was taken to Peavey in about 1980 and used for the 90x60 horn on the Peavey SP-1, using a 1" throat and the Peavey 22a driver. This was later split into the MX-1 and FH-1 bins, and the MB-2 was added as a midbass driver for PA. It was, I believe, two EV engineers that quit and went to work for Hartley Peavey, hence the heavy CD horn influence in the design. These can be had very cheap in the usual places for used stuff.

Thanks for the nice compliments, Neil and Eldon. It's been a 4 1/2 year journey with the Pro stuff ever since I heard the K402's with MWM bass that long ago. The key was to downsize my original "stacks" without compromosing the quality of the sound. I was extremely happy and proud with my last 4-way (with sub) configuration, so the goal here was to get better IMAGING by shortening the stack by a foot or more without compromising the quality of the 4-way. The curves correlate pretty well to what I hear and the sound is certainly different since I have different bass EQ and Xover points for the entire thing except for the tweeter, which is the same capacitor value with a different driver on the same horn lens, which is the next thing I will try as a new, affordable horn lens just became available the has been deemed good with the new tweeter drivers. No matter what drivers and horns I have tried, the finishing touches have been provided by the AUDYSSEY room EQ built into my receiver. That is the "piece de resistance" for sure.

I like LaScalas with K43's because the higher BL product gives a tilt in the response for more output to "greet" the K400/K55 midrange section, so there is more presence and detail where it counts. The overall sound is much tighter and more detailed but you sacrifice a few db below 100 Hz. to do it, which is no problem if you have a sub that works well to 100 Hz. In my case my sub get weird after about 70 Hz. to I compromise with the K33, BUT the K402 goes lower than the K401, expecially with that huge 1133 driver, so it's a different setup altogehter vs. a stock LaScala or Belle treble section.

Since Signal to Noise ratio ratings on power amps are referenced to full output, driven by the input sensitivity (1 volt or 2?, like sugar cubes), all other things being equal, the lower powered amplifiers...............6-50 watts are a better match for all-horn systems rather than 50-500 Watts. I would like to see ALL power amps rated in DB Watts, but it won' happen. 0 dbW=1 Watt, 10 dbW=10W, 20 dbW=100W, 30 dbW=1000W. Each one allows you to play progressively twice as loud. Since power compression in loudspeakers occurs at 10 % of voice coil power ratings, you can see where a 100 Watt woofer will go into power compression starting at 10 Watts of amplifier output, which makes the ALL HORN guys like us laugh at the other speaker types, since we always have full linear dynamics in our rooms. ALL speakers, including the highest efficiency horns, are less than 50% efficient..........so that makes ALL speakers more SPACE HEATERS rather than SOUND PRODUCERS. Another easy argument for horns.

That's what i thought, I thought the big difference for me was the 402. That room in the lab is not the best sounding for sure and they have had a bunch of different electronics on them at different times also. We were told the room was kind of treated to not sound great, they wanted it to sound like the average room people have to have a better idea of how different speakers sound in a average room. To us although with different bottoms, we don't have Jube bass bins, they sound better in our room than what we heard in that room, although our room (24' wide) it's wider so that probably helps alot ? Was just wondering what you thought. Thanks The JBL 2360a comes close, but I have never heard a better mid horn than the K-402. Although they are optimized for different frequency ranges, so it's still apples and oranges, except when it comes to size, they are both BIG (square vs. rectangular).........the 402 about 30x40 vs. 31x31" for the JBL, so the 402 is a TAD bigger, which sounds great with TAD drivers. LOL.

There was a shootout a few years ago on one of the pro sound websites comparing sound reinforcement subs. At high power some of the subs tested put out in excess of 25% harmonic distortion. A sub that many preferred had 30% distortion. The harmonics gave it a "fuller" sound according to some of the listeners at the test. That is funny, says the man who had Khorns for over 30 years (still do, but not plugged in currently). Reminds of a PWK story about a double blind test performed at a show. It was a live orchestra vs. many different speakers setups........the live orchestra came in THIRD!! I had twin VMPS large subs with lotsa watts, until my daugther's cat decided to kill them with urine. two 12's two 15's with two passive radiators in ports, IOW, lotsa cone area. The went low enough but not as low as my Tapped Horn sub with a single 12. The tapped horn has more "speed" and incredibly low distortion in comparitons for about the same cubic feet of lumber.

My good friend and fellow audiphile has 3 or four of them. I have heard them so many times over his Open Baffle speakers. He has a Nelson Pass designed pre amp to drive them. First class electronics at a reasonable price. Also, the service for upgrades is impeccable and reasonable...about as obsolete proof of an amp as you can get.

So was that your intended purpose for the build? To destroy a car with 1 KW? You seem to favore PPSL bass. Is that the most detailed, effeicient bass per cubic foot or $$ overall?

Most adapters screw up the sound in some fashion......not recommended. Stick with a 2" driver, which is what the horn was mated with.

I don't think so. I have never seen them for 1" drivers. Mine are for 2" drivers (owner) and I have never seen even a spec. for 1" anywhere. So they are for 2" drivers, which are in the photo you posted.

I wouldn't use an adapter either, Tom. I just asked what driver he wanted to use. JBL recommends no lower than 500Hz. Claude had a pair he used for a while on his journey but I think they were the 2360s. Bruce That is correct..2360a's...........best sounding JBL horn IMHO in my 4-way setup.........along with it's companion Peavey MB-1, it has been replaced by a K402/1133, which was doable because the Tapped horn took care of bass below 70 Hz. so I was able to use an FH-1 with K33's (more ruggedly built cabinet than a LaScala and cheaper) for bass and midbass combined to cross at 400 Hz. to the 402, which is lower mids and upper mids combined...........like slicing round pita bread sandwich into thirds rather quarters, LOL. Co-incidentally, Preston Tom, I did cross my MB-1's (1.3 mH choke) into the JBL's at 700 Hz. This is where they measured and sounded best. But they did naturally go up to 8 Khz. with broad dispersion, even though the mass rolloff had kicked in by then.