Ski Bum

The dam is broken. Soon none of the foreign cartels will be able to engage profitably in the illicit substance loaded carrot business. Lots of carrots out here in Colorado, we've got 'em coming out our ears. Fair warning, it's kind of habit forming. These aren't your father's carrots.

Chris, you do a good job of keeping it real. This is yet another home-run thread IMO. Only heard Jubs/402 once, SH a couple times. I'm very happy to see your expose on the approach, it's pretty cool.

Dave, you probably posted it somewhere already, but are you planning to stream your show? I would love to tune in.

I got mine there a couple years ago for $250 in seemingly new condition. I probably wouldn't even have an ATI unless the price was really right. I'm cheap, I admit it. Because of your speakers' sensitivity and fairly easy load, your choice of amplification is really wide open. I've had good results with most everything I've tried, just mentioned the ATI because it is indeed a great amp for fortes: exemplary performance where it counts, at 1w and below, the ATI is dead silent; high current, can cope with just about anything; gain controls; satisfaction with supporting US workers; warranty, etc. The value proposition I'll leave to you. I agree with the others that fortes and tubes work well, but didn't mention anything because the request was for a clean amp. I use single ended power most of the time, which isn't "clean" but really is quite beguiling anyway. This too can be taken care of cheaply. Have a look at some of Maynard's and Mike's threads on homebrew tube toys for ideas.

Power amp? Your fortes won't require anywhere near the power of your other speakers. ATI. No nonsense amplification, very good specs, US made, long warranty. They're kinda pricey full coin, but classicaudioparts.com is their online retailer for better deals on b-stock, or used (I think the warranty is transferrable, not quite sure on that). I use an AT602, which is kind of modestly powered, but considering it only takes about 35 watts to blast us out of the room, it's fine. Next notch up is their AT1202. I don't recommend their more powerful amps because they lack gain controls, and the low power ones should suffice for all but the largest of rooms when driving fortes. Cost no object? One of those fancy Benchmark amps. DAC like s/n, probably the best low-level performance available right now. Frugal? Emotiva has always been a value leader.

Not sure a consensus actually exists. I get the best results with heavy toe in, such that the axis cross in front of the main listening position. This approach helps avoid spraying side walls with treble, and takes advantage of time/intensity trading to laterally expand the sweet spot. Less toe in, on the other hand, usually improves the sweet spot, but shrinks it a bit too, to only those prime midline/equidistant listening positions. Try it every which way and go with what works best for your particular application.

Hey, just to clarify an earlier point, the speaker with narrower pattern is perfectly capable of casting a very wide image. Think about it this way: a wider dispersion speaker, even one with textbook perfect off axis behavior like the KEF, will necessarily involve local acoustics to a greater degree. When implemented properly, speakers with narrower patterns sidestep early reflections, allowing them to pull off a striking facsimile of near-field type sound quality, where the sonic ambient cues from the source, rather than your local acoustics, paints the image in your mind's eye. If the recording was done in a large venue and captured a lot of the reflected sound, the resulting image will be quite wide.

Somebody at Klipsch had some micro La Scalas for their desktop.

Another kit to go along with JPM's suggestion. This one's a little different in that it's a mltl type enclosure that brings fairly deep (40 hz or so) and tight (non resonant) bass. I really like this approach for bass, even though there is a sensitivity penalty compared to a back loaded horn. Even with bsc (which it demands for proper tonal balance IMO) it's still pretty sensitive at ~94db/w. The TB drivers are not exactly cheap, but not too terribly expensive. I like them better than the Fostex I've tried.

The LS50 have exceptionally smooth polars and as a result tend to bring lots of flexibility with placement and general friendliness to various acoustic environments. I suspect their pattern may be a bit wider than the Klipsch (just a guess, I would love to see good full measurements of the 160's), but with that woof diameter, that horn, and that crossover point, the Klipsch look to be on target for nice smooth off axis performance. If the Klipsch indeed throw a narrower pattern, you could do things like cross firing (to take of time/intensity trading in order to expand the sweet spot), a trick that a wider dispersion speaker cannot pull off. Just some things to play around with while you're at it. Does one pull of the "disappearing act" better than the other? Not to nitpick, but Klipschvoxx is at it again with the exaggerated specs. There is no freakin way that a driver that small in a cab that small can achieve both 40 hz extension and 98 db sensitivity. They may be quite a bit more sensitive than the KEFs, but what's claimed seems a bit, um, optimistic.

I could see an active version of the 160 being competitive in the pro studio monitor market. (I wonder why Klipsch hasn't gone there, given their presence in the big venue commercial market.)

Well, it sounds like a very merry new year you're having! LS50's are great speakers, certainly a worthy metric to hold the Klipsch monitors to. Definitely post your impressions when you have more listening time on them.

Colorado rules. Come visit often!

You would be surprised how far just a couple of watts will get you. I only fall back to the big amps when I want to really blast it, which is pretty rare. Don't be afraid to give single ended low power a try, particularly at such a restricted budget. You won't find a better value than some of Maynard's home cookin.

Love the custom Choruses (Chori?), they look dope. And welcome to the thermionic zone!

The myhometheater.com peak spl meter seems geared to wide dispersion, direct radiator type speakers. I consistently was getting calculated results higher than actual measurements unless selecting "in a corner" as the placement option in the calculator, regardless of actual speaker proximity to walls/corners.

Hola tcklze. If you go tube, particularly a flea watter, it's good to have a larger amp as a standby. I love the kooky SET imaging trickery, and it works about 90% of the time. It's that other 10% when you just have to rock out in proper disturb the neighbors fashion that a large amp comes in handy. I switch up between a 2 watt SET and a ss ATI. I like the choices in your ss list so far. I might suggest that you consider one of the mid-tier Yamahas for the sake of their variable loudness control which is absent on their top shelf models. I find it quite handy, and you probably don't need more power than they provide. Something like the R-N701, for example. Kind of similarly, I also like that Marantz integrateds have tone controls for mids too. I have the precursor to the NAD C375, for use with smaller, much less sensitive speakers, but when I tried it with my fortes it did them and the music justice, if a bit of overkill. Gobs of power, as in flex the windows levels. Other nice feature: dual pre-outs, one set you can trim back 12db (handy for feeding subs, level matching amps if you bi-amp, or feeding an external amp for the Hafler ambience rear speakers). They're hot, too, +/-7v, able to drive insensitive pro amps to full output (if you happen to need even more power than the NAD brings, although it's hard to imagine that in a domestic situation). As for Decware, their 4 watt Mini Torii sounds like it has more balls than their 6 watt SET. It's their best match with Klipsch IMO.

Oh, further thoughts on the ghetto Dynaquad method...the rears will be getting a mono signal wired in series like I described, but you can wire the rear speakers out of phase relative each other to help reduce localization and produce that diffuse, disembodied sound field you want from the ambient channels. Almost no bass gets sent to the rears so it will not tax your amp as much as running both speakers simultaneously and properly connected. With wet recordings, the ambient acoustic cues goes to the rears quite effectively. Specific instruments or vocalists that are panned off center get just enough sent to the rears to really help the image pop. Really good live recordings translate very well, and this Hafler gimmick will put you at the show. It's pretty effective if primordial surround sound, organic and subtle.

Mmmm, walnut. Nice score. I have a suggestion: rather than stacking the speakers (not the best recipe for stereo imaging/soundstage), wire the HWO up as rears in a Hafler Dynaquad style setup. Never tried it? It's easy. Leave the fortes up front as your main L and R, place the Heresies to the side/rear as wide and far back behind the mlp as possible. Next, on the Heresies, disconnect the black/negative leads from the amp but leave the red/postive leads connected; connect the negative speaker leads that were connected to the amp to each other. Voila, you've just extracted and sent the Left minus Right difference signal to the Heresies. What this does is send any information that is not mono or in phase to the rear speakers, the more panned away from dead center or out of phase the sound is, the more it is channeled to the rears. This all may sound kind of ridiculous, but it really works, and the results are completely naturalistic. Try it.

Using the low impedance setting will cause current limiting nonsense to intervene in your music at lower power levels, where the high or 8 ohm setting will allow the amp to deliver everything it's capable of. It will also generate all the heat it's able to on the high setting, so there's that. If it were me, I would use the 8 ohm setting. I like the lower level Yamaha's for that variable loudness control. Very useful feature, IMO. Nice choice, JTG.

Nice score! Yes, it can really help optimize the imaging, but you inevitably suffer a slight reduction in bass. Solid risers may result in less bass loss than open stands such as the ones in my avatar pic, but either way, you get less reinforcement due to less proximity to the floor. So if you go with risers/stands, use tone controls or eq. Deeper corner placement works too, if that's an option.

I am. And I think abortion after 20-25 weeks is murder. You are what? Having a vasectomy? Hallelujah! If you meant that you have a uterus, it seems you would be the sort to make a personal choice not to abort after week 20-25. Do you think that your morality should be imposed onto others, codified into law, thus removing women's reproductive rights after 20 weeks?

There seem to be an awful lot of folks pontificating on abortion who are quite simply unqualified to do so. Who here is sporting a uterus? Anyone? If you don't have one of those, and don't like abortion, have a vasectomy.

I'm interested...need shop speakers and these would be perfect.

Damn, needed those for the shop. Oh well. Hope they rock, Matt.