robert_kc

LOL. I should have suggested that you first turn down the volume on the sub. Try a Y cable from the DAC to feed the pre-amp and sub .... but turn down the volume on the sub first ... 😊 If it sounds good ... enjoy the music ... P.S. This configuration will work best if the subwoofer has a remote volume control. You might also try the Y cable between the pre-amp and amp, so that the sub's volume level tracks with the volume level of the main speakers. (FWIW, I use Oppo players, which have "bass management", with configurable crossover parameters for the sub, and an RCA line-level sub connection, and a remote volume control. I also have volume control on most of my subs.)

What is the source component? Have you proven that the subwoofer works OK? If so, what was the configuration (i.e., how were components connected) when the sub worked OK? Have you tried disconnecting the preamp from the DAC, and connecting the sub directly to the DAC? If this works, then perhaps use a Y-cable from the DAC feeding the sub and pre-amp??? We're all rooting for you ...

I was somewhat aware of the Jubilee’s history. What I meant is that Jubilee are currently marketed for commercial use – not home use - and IMO they look like it. I was wrong about the Jubilee horn’s material. Nonetheless, in my opinion the horn looks like an industrial appliance. I’m not knocking Jubilee. 😊 I am fortunate and thankful that a forum member invited me into his home, and I’ve seen and heard Jubilee. People have different tastes regarding style, but I think at least some of us agree that the flat black Jubilee with exposed horn isn’t aesthetically in the same league as the new Klipschorn or La Scala AL5 (based on pics), or the discontinued Palladium (which I own). (IMO the Palladium subwoofer is particularly handsome.) I understand that some people like the “industrial look” of the Jubilee. However, the one I saw, and the pictures I’ve seen, has exposed mounting holes on the front of the horn, and exposed mounting brackets. And there’s no grill cloth covering the horn. (I understand that some people use their speakers without grill covers. Not me.) And, I wouldn’t have a black cabinet and exposed horn in my living room – but again, I realize that people are different. (The Jubilee that have veneer on the front IMO look somewhat better.) No disrespect or offense intended for owners of Jubilee, but IMO the Jubilee doesn’t look like a finished consumer product. If I had room in my basement, I might consider a pair - if I became convinced that they could be voiced (or tuned) to excel at the classical music I love. (There’s no question that the Jube’s horn produces a “big” sound. The Jubes I heard were tuned to the owner’s taste, which is different from mine. Which is as it should be.) However, I just don’t have room for Jubilee – even in my basement. So, it’s tower speakers for me. Fortunately, I’m satisfied with my Palladium, and my RF-7II, when paired with the right tube amps. Because I think that there are some other people whose tastes and circumstances are similar to mine, I think there would be a market for a “luxury version” of RF-7III that has premium appearance. Or, a replacement for the Palladium line. Bottom line – I think that the speakers we are talking about are all high-quality speakers that can be “voiced” or “tuned” to satisfaction, based on amp selection, and/or room acoustics, and/or tone controls, and/or equalizer, etc. Different strokes for different folks …

I think the $64k question is what will be Klipsch’s next high-end speaker? Will Klipsch offer Jubilee as a finished consumer product with aesthetics on par with the new Klipschorn or La Scala AL5? FWIW, I think Klipsch is due for a new premium tower speaker, targeted for the many consumers who don’t have room for Klipschorn or La Scala, and who want a product with deluxe appearance. A replacement for Palladium? An upscale version of RF-7III?

Respectfully, Palladium and Jubilee are apples and oranges. Palladium are beautiful luxury-grade speakers that could be displayed in the finest homes. Jubilee have flat-black painted plywood cabinets, and don't even have grill cloth covering the metal horn. Jubilee are industrial products designed to be installed behind a movie theater's screen - not in the living room of a home. Plus ... there's the size ... consider carefully the dimensions of Palladium speakers vs. Jubilee ... If you are a wood worker who can install veneer on the Jubilee, and fabricate grill covers, my hat is off to you. Or, if you think that the "industrial look" of Jubilee looks cool in your "man cave" then, OK ... but recognize that many people would not have flat-black painted 42" wide cabinets and huge exposed metal horns in their living room.

I own Palladium P-37F (and P-312W subwooofer), and RF-7II (and R-115SW, and SVS SB16-Ultra subwooofers). IMO, the Palladium are a luxury product, that feature exotic (i.e., expensive) cabinet shape, and veneers. IMO, the RF-7II sound better (when paired with the right tube amp), but have plain boxes and lower grade veneers. IME ... for the classical music I love ... the key factor is synergy with the right tube amp. Here's my relevant systems that provide the basis for my opinion: TV room: Stereo speakers are Klipsch Palladium P-37F. Subwoofer: Klipsch P-312W. The source is an Oppo UDP-205. The amps are Scott 399, McIntosh MC225, Kenwood KR-9050, Fisher 800B, Fisher X-1000, Scott 299C, McIntosh MC240, and an NAD C375BEE. The tube amps are for music. The solid-state amps are for movies. A patch panel (banana plugs) allows me to connect the speakers to whichever amp I want, and Niles AXP-1 RCA selector switches connect the Oppo to the amp. Chromecast Audio for internet radio and Spotify Premium. Basement: Front, center, and left speakers are Klipsch RF-7 II. A single rear speaker is a Klipsch RF-7. Subwoofers: SVS SB16-Ultra, Klipsch R-115SW. Source: Oppo UDP-205. Amps: Scott 272, Inspire “Fire Bottle” SE Stereo Tube Amplifier HO, Scott 222C, McIntosh MX110Z tuner/preamp, Fisher KX-200, Scott 296, Pilot SA-260, Scott LK150. A patch panel allows me to connect the speakers to whichever amp I want, and F/F RCA cables enable me to connect an amp to the Oppo, and a power amp to the MX110Z. Chromecast Audio for internet radio and Spotify Premium.

Here’s my attempt at a humorous response to the guy in the video. Perhaps his neighbor could engage him in conversation, and ask him what music he HATES. Perhaps one of these? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b07-yKnKRMQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XeSQVWleqY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq0pCQXuh6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTurgi8woVU Then park a trailer full of commercial-grade speakers next to his house and blast whichever is most obnoxious in an endless loop - for the same duration of time he blasted his music. I’m kidding. To me that’s something to joke about - not actually do. If the loud music happens often, I’d suggest a calm conversation about it – neighbor to neighbor. Regarding other sources of noise, I don’t understand why manufacturers don’t put better mufflers on leaf blowers, weed eaters, lawn mowers, etc. And I don’t understand why some people remove mufflers from motorcycles, trucks, etc. IMO it’s all unnecessary noise pollution. As I said earlier, apparently some people are unfazed by loud noise, but many people find noise extremely irritating. I think there is a reasonable balance between having some tolerance, but not having to put up with frequent loud noise. I’m tolerant of an occasional loud party that goes late – e.g., a high school graduation party. We were all young once. But if a neighbor had loud parties until 3AM every week, I wouldn’t be happy. I’m tolerant of occasional dog barking – that’s part of life in the city. But I think it’s unacceptable when people leave their dog outside all day (or night) and it barks for hours. I live in an old neighborhood in the city with small lots – the houses are very close together. We have an issue every July 4. Fireworks are illegal in the city – for good reasons: noise, fire safety, and general public safety. (I have a wood roof.) Nonetheless many people set off aerial fireworks over the course of 5 days (not just on July 4). I’m tolerant of the noise on July 4, but I think 5 days of noise is unreasonable. This pits neighbor against neighbor, with heated discussions every year on Nextdoor.com. (Some people have called their neighbors “snowflakes” because they asked for peace and quiet. OTOH, some people simply don’t care that fireworks are illegal, and don’t care about how their actions negatively affect their neighbors.) Here’s an example of my real-world experience. Several years ago, I installed a single speaker on my sun porch – for one day. I was listening to opera at what I thought was a reasonable volume level, but my neighbor complained in a polite and diplomatic manner. I thanked her for bringing it to my attention, apologized and told her it would never happen again. I removed the speaker, and I now only listen indoors with my windows closed. IMO if the guy in the video blasted music once – no big deal. If he was blasting music on a regular basis, IMO that’s definitely not cool. For me, step 1 would be a calm conversation with him. If he told me to “F$%& OFF”, and continued blasting noise, I’d follow my City’s standard procedure for filing a noise complaint.

OP: Do I understand correctly that you have commercial-grade loudspeakers installed in your garage, or outdoors, and you’re playing music loud enough that neighbors are calling the police? Assuming that you sincerely want to hear different opinions, I respectfully offer the following comments. Have you considered the fact that whatever genre of music you like, your music is disliked (perhaps intensely disliked) by many other people? Have you considered that many people enjoy peace and quiet, and are bothered by loud noise, including loud music? Some have commented that if their neighbors don’t like their loud music, they have “miserable lives” or have a “total disdain for music”. If loud noise doesn’t bother you … OK … but I suggest that you recognize that loud noise does bother many other people. Your neighbors may be trying to read a book, talk on the phone, quietly listen to their music or watch TV, take a nap, or just enjoy peace and quiet. I like Klipsch speakers. With that said, I’ve always found the cocky attitude about “pissing off the neighbors” (e.g., Klipsch’s subwoofer ads) to be sophomoric, and I believe it reflects an egregious lack of consideration for other people. If you like to really “crank it up”, and your neighbors are close enough to be disturbed, perhaps you should consider getting some Klipsch headphones. Or listen to your music indoors with the windows closed – and confirm that your music is not loud outside. That’s my 2 cents …

I have a pair of Palladium P-37F and the matching P-312W subwoofer in espresso finish. IMO the P-37F needs the subwoofer. My Oppo UDP-205 universal player provides the crossover for the sub, so that the low frequencies are off-loaded from the main amp and speakers. (I have the UDP-205's crossover set at 100Hz, with the filter configured as "apodizing fast".) I use tube amps (Scott 399, McIntosh MC225, Fisher 800B, Fisher X-1000, Scott 299C, McIntosh MC240) for music (classical and opera), and a solid-state amp (NAD C375BEE) for movies. In my 12' x 13' x 8' listening room, even a 7189 PP tube amp (approx 18 wpc) has adequate power for most music. For music with high dynamic range, such as hi-res recordings of large scale orchestral music, 30 wpc of tube power works well. This system sounds great for both music and movies. A major distinction of the Palladium line is the beautiful design, and beautiful exotic veneer. If you want great sound and premium appearance, I strongly recommend the Palladium tower speakers. I'm not sure if the P-38F will need a sub - it will likely depend on your music, your room, and your ears. If you can find the matching P-312W subwoofer, I would get it. The P-312W subwoofer looks 10x better than any sub I've seen. It's a work of art. And it has a very useful remote control. If you're not concerned with premium appearance, and you need tower speakers (i.e., your room can't accommodate Klipschorn or La Scala), you might also consider the RF-7III. (I own RF-7II, and they sound great with tube amps, and only need a subwoofer for extreme low frequencies such as pipe organ.)

I think that RF-7II excel at music and home theater. I haven’t heard the newer RF-7III - if I was in the market today, I’d probably buy RF-7III. (Heritage speakers such as La Scala are too wide for my spaces.) I love classical music, which involves natural instruments performing together live in a purpose-built venue (i.e., symphony hall or opera house, with no sound reinforcement system). IME, the RF-7II are capable of reproducing this natural sound, when driven by the right tube amps. (IME, RF-7II can sound harsh with solid-state amps, and can sound bright with KT88 tube amps.) Large scale orchestral music can have tremendous dynamic range, and significant bass content (e.g., bass drum, pipe organ, and multiple double bass). Modern hi-res recordings can deliver classical music’s dynamic range and powerful bass. My basement 4.2 system can deliver a near-live-classical-concert-experience. Front, center, and left speakers are Klipsch RF-7 II. A single rear speaker is a Klipsch RF-7. Subwoofers: SVS SB16-Ultra, Klipsch R-115SW. These four tower speakers plus two subwoofers provide plenty of acoustical power in this average size listening room. Recently I’ve been watching/listening to surround-sound Blu-ray video recordings of classical concerts (in addition to surround-sound opera Blu-rays) on my basement system, and I find that RF-7II and two stereo tube amps (one for L&R, one for center and single rear) provide excellent audio quality. This system’s ability to deliver dynamic impact across the full frequency range makes this system well suited for classical music and movies. (Unless perhaps someone wants to shake the floor when a movie’s LFE features an earthquake.) Source: Oppo UDP-205. The Oppo UDP-205 provides "bass management" - i.e., a built-in crossover, and a connection for a powered subwoofer. With Oppo's bass management, the low frequencies are off-loaded from the main amp and speakers, thereby facilitating greater overall dynamics. The Oppo universal players provide analog line-level RCA connections for 2.0, 2.1, and 5.1, thereby facilitating direct connection of vintage tube amps. The Oppo UDP-205 will play any modern digital format for music and movies (discs, downloads, and audio streaming via Chromecast Audio connected via TOSLINK), making the Oppo universal player well suited for music and movies. Here's the tube amps that I have in my basement system: Scott 272 (EL34), Inspire “Fire Bottle” SE Stereo Tube Amplifier HO (single-ended-pentode (SEP) power amp currently equipped with 6L6GC), Scott 222C (7189), McIntosh MX110Z tuner/preamp, Fisher KX-200 (7591), Scott 296 (6L6GC), Pilot SA-260 (EL34), Scott LK150 (KT88). A patch panel allows me to connect the speakers to whichever amp(s) I want, and F/F RCA cables enable me to connect an amp to the Oppo, and a power amp to the MX110Z (if I choose to have a pre-amp in the audio chain). IMO, my basement system sounds great for music and movies. (I have 2 other hi-fi systems (2.1) that do double duty for movies and music, one featuring Palladium P-37F, the other Snell Type CV.) Moreover, my favorite format for music is Blu-ray discs featuring high-def video and hi-res surround-sound (DTS-HD MA 5.1). Therefore, for me there really is no distinction between movies and music. Following are two posts discussing Blu-ray audio/video recordings of classical orchestral music. (Additionally, there are many Blu-ray audio/video recordings of opera and ballet.) https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/181673-tvmovie-audio-superior-to-music/&do=findComment&comment=2351668 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/181673-tvmovie-audio-superior-to-music/&do=findComment&comment=2352074 Many modern recordings of classical music feature hi-def video in addition to hi-res surround-sound audio. Those modern classical recordings that don’t feature video usually feature hi-res surround sound (e.g., SACD or Pure Audio Blu-ray), and the HDTV is useful in navigating the recording’s menus. Bottom line: for me, there’s no distinction between a speaker’s suitability for music vs. movies, or a hi-fi system’s suitability for music vs. movies. Based on the genre of music I like, home playback systems for music and movies have already converged.

My Inspire “Fire Bottle” SE Stereo Tube Amplifier HO (single-ended tube amp) puts out approximately 8 wpc when equipped with 6L6GC. It sounds good driving my Klipsch RF-7II, except for music with tremendous dynamic range (i.e., large scale orchestral music). When this SEP amp "runs out of gas" it doesn't sound bad, I just don't get the full fff dynamic impact. I've never damaged a speaker.

Pepe Romero performs Joaquín Rodrigo’s “Concierto de Aranjuezon” on the Blu-ray disc “Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos Danish NSO”. Very enjoyable. Audio and video are excellent. (About a year ago I saw Pepe and several family members perform live.) I believe Blu-ray discs aren’t going away soon. And, Ultra HD Blu-ray discs are becoming available. IMO there are already enough Blu-ray discs to warrant owning a player, and more discs are released every month. New SACDs are released every month. (On Amazon search for “SACD”, and then in the pull-down box in the upper right corner select “Newest Arrivals”.) SACD is NOT dead – particularly for classical music. FWIW, last year when Oppo announced that they were discontinuing sales, I bought a second UDP-205. (I have two UDP-205, plus a BDP-105, and a BDP-95.) I am equipped to play any modern digital audio and video format, whether disc or download. Does your amp have an HDMI input (e.g., AVR), or only red & white RCA analog line-level inputs (i.e., traditional stereo hi-fi amp)? If you want a universal player that has analog RCA line-level audio outputs for stereo (not surround-sound), then you might consider the Sony UBP-X1000ES. (The Oppo units have RCA analog line-level outputs for 5.1.) I have no personal experience with the UBP-X1000ES, but I’ve read good things. New UBP-X1000ES are commonly available for $500, and I’ve seen “factory refurb” units on eBay for less. If you want a universal player that has only HDMI output (i.e., you have an AVR), and will play Blu-ray, Ultra HD Blu-ray, SACD, CD, and downloaded hi-res music, there are several models available. A friend of mine recently bought a Sony UBPX-X700. They’re available on Amazon for $168. But remember – no analog RCA audio connections. The availability of high-quality hi-res recordings (e.g., Blu-ray, SACD, hi-res download) varies by music genre. For the classical music I love, most new releases are available in hi-res. Therefore, for me a universal player is essential in order to enjoy the best quality audio (and audio/video) recordings.

Here's some more Blu-ray box sets that are a great value: Jean Sibelius: Complete Symphonies Schumann Symphonies Johannes Brahms: The Complete Symphonies Bruckner: Symphonies Nos. 4-9 Mahler Symphonies 1-7 Here's some individual concerts on Blu-ray: Mahler: Symphony No. 9 Beethoven Missa Solemnis Khatia Buniatishvili There are many other classical Blu-ray, including concerts featuring opera excerpts, a series of New Year's Eve concerts, plus many ballet and opera.

The availability of high-quality hi-res recordings varies by music genre. For the classical music I love, high-quality hi-res recordings are commonly available. Many operas, ballet, and a growing number of classical concerts are available on Blu-ray, featuring DTS-HD MA 5.1. (Blu-ray audio/video is my favorite way to enjoy classical music.) A few classical recordings are available on Ultra HD Blu-ray. Some classical recordings are on Pure Audio Blu-ray (i.e., no video). SACD (including multi-channel) is common for classical music. Downloaded hi-res (24bit/192kHz) FLAC (e.g. HDTracks) is also common for classical music. Some classical recordings are available as a hi-res DSD download. Provenance of the recording is critical – i.e., modern recordings that were captured and mastered as hi-res. (In a few cases high quality analog master tapes have been digitized at hi-res with fairly good results - e.g., some RCA Living Stereo. However, these pale in comparison to modern state-of-the-art recordings.) For the music that I love, many modern recordings are available that have excellent audio quality – i.e., recorded and mastered in hi-res with no compression, and delivered in hi-res (i.e., higher quality than CD quality, such as Blu-ray, SACD, and hi-res download), often featuring surround-sound. If you haven’t experienced classical music via Blu-ray (audio/video), IMO the following is a very enjoyable high-quality set of all Beethoven symphonies (plus 3 other works) for a very reasonable price. (I just saw the deluxe box set on eBay for $49.99 with free shipping. Apparently the Blu-ray discs are now also available with “non-deluxe packaging”.) Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos Danish NSO Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 1–9 Joaquín Rodrigo: Concierto de Aranjuez Hector Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique, Op. 14 Richard Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie (An Alpine Symphony), Op. 64, TrV 233 I can make other recommendations if you’d like.

6L6GC is my favorite output tube. I run them in my McIntosh MC240, two Scott 296, two McIntosh MC30, Altec 353A, Fisher TA-500, and Inspire “Fire Bottle” SE Stereo Tube Amplifier HO. (Also, I have two Pilot HF-56 running KT-66.) I am currently using GE and RCA vintage 6L6GC, new “big bottle” Tung-Sol 6L6 G, and Russian 6P3S-E (6П3С-E). I think that 6CA7 / EL34 can sound very good. My amps: Fisher X-1000, Pilot SA-260, and Scott 272. I think that 7189 / EL84 have a pleasant sound for smaller scale music (e.g., chamber music). I have several Scott amps running 7189. I generally find KT88s to be too bright without tone controls. I use McIntosh MX110Z tone controls with my McIntosh MC275 and Scott LK150 to attenuate the treble and achieve a natural sound. In this configuration, they sound great. My Fire Bottle SEP amp can run a variety of tubes (which is not the case with most amps). Here’s the output tubes that I’ve tried (all approved by the designer, based on using a specific rectifier): Zenith 6V6G (vintage) Sylvania 6L6GA (vintage) Sylvania 7408 (vintage, 6V6 variant) Mullard EL34 Bugle Boy EL34 (vintage) Russian 6P3S-E (Russian military surplus 1980s 6L6GC equivalent) Groove Tube Gold Series GT6L6GE (6L6GC) McIntosh branded GE 6L6GC (vintage) GE 6L6GC (vintage) Tung-Sol 7581A (6L6GC variant) Tung-Sol 6L6G (6L6GC in a big bottle) Gold Lion KT88 Tung-Sol KT150 Gold Lion KT66 Sylvania 5881 Rectifiers that I’ve tried in my Fire Bottle amp: 5Y3, 5U4, 5U4GB, 5V4, 5V4GA, 5AR4 (multiple manufacturers of each) Specific favorites in my Fire Bottle amp: Output: Best overall sound: Groove Tube Gold Series GT6L6GE Performance Rating 5 (#2: Russian military 6P3S-E, Honorable mention: Tung-Sol 6L6G (coke bottle 6L6GC), Tung-Sol KT150, Gold Lion KT66, vintage Sylvania 5881) Best Value: 6P3S-E Best combination of sound and aesthetics: Tung-Sol 6L6G, Gold Lion KT66 Rectifier: Sylvania JAN 5V4G (#2 : various 5V4G & 5V4GA, #3 Mullard 5AR4) Input: Amperex 6DJ8 (Holland) Of course your mileage will vary, depending on your speakers, your music, your ears, and your preferences.

I’m curious why you aren’t going with the “wi-fi outlets” that 2 people have suggested. I use Google Home, and a Wemo Mini Smart Plug to turn on and off my 1950s era Fisher 500 mono tube receiver in my bedroom. (The Wemo Mini Smart Plug is rated at 1800 watts, which is ample for this use.) I can say: "Hey Google, turn on Fisher 500." "Hey Google, turn off Fisher 500." You can also use a smartphone or tablet to control the Wemo Mini Smart Plug. You can use the Wemo app on a smartphone/tablet to set an Auto-Off Timer for the Wemo Mini Smart Plug, i.e., turn off automatically after X many hours and Y many minutes. For example, you can turn on the vintage receiver either via smartphone/tablet (or via voice command to Google Home smart speaker), and it turns off automatically after 2 hours (or whatever time period you set). The Wemo Mini Smart Plug is currently available on Amazon for $23 (free shipping). Wemo Mini Smart Plug If you want voice command (vs. using smartphone/tablet), you can buy a Google Home for $89, or a Google Home Mini for $29, which opens up a wealth of “smart speaker” capabilities. For example, I can say something like "Hey Google, play 'Classical KUSC' on Chromecast Bedroom", and that internet radio station will be cast to a $35 Chromecast Audio gizmo connected to an Aux input on my Fisher 500. You can also use Google Home to control Spotify Premium. (This works well for pop music; not so good for classical music.) And of course, Google Home (or Alexa) can be used for countless other things. I’m just curious why you would choose a vintage timer vs. modern technology. P.S. I see that @capo72 recommended a different brand (TanTan) of wi-fi outlets that sell for $33 for quantity 4. They're rated at 10A vs. 15A for the Wemo gizmo that I bought a year ago. I don't know if the TanTan wi-fi outlets have the Auto-Off feature. P.P.S. I just asked "Hey Google, will the Chiefs win today?" She stated who is playing and game time, but declined to predict a winner ... 🙂

I use Oppo universal players (UDP-205, BDP-105, or BDP-95) that can decode any digital recording. The Oppo UDP-205 has built-in high-quality multi-channel DACs, "pre-amp" functionality including selectable downmixing (e.g., 7.1, 5.1, 5.0, 2.1, 2.0), bass management (i.e., configurable subwoofer crossover), and remote volume control. You can play any hi-res recording through the Oppo’s analog RCA line-level connections. I connect vintage tube amps directly to the Oppo players (i.e., no pre-amp). IME adequate gain for driving a power amp can be achieved by adjusting a parameter in the Oppo’s software for the “trim level” for the speakers. The only times I use a preamp is for LPs, or if I want tone controls (e.g., when KT88 amps sound too bright).

Yes, I love the classical Blu-rays. They feature DTS-HD MA 5.0 audio and 1080p video. (There are a few Ultra HD Blu-rays becoming available.) Both audio and video are excellent. I enjoy watching the conductor, and the musicians. The Blu-ray classical box sets are a great value - a lot of music for the money. I have a box set with all Beethoven symphonies, plus a box set for all symphonies by Sibelius, Schumann, Brahms, Mahler, and Bruckner. Plus Blu-rays of individual classical concerts, opera, and ballet. I have a strong preference for Blu-ray audio/video, vs. audio only. Does the video influence how I perceive the sound? I don't know. But I'll say that the modern Blu-ray's DTS-HD MA 5.0 is probably the best audio quality I've heard. I listen via tube amps and RF-7II for L, C, & R, plus a single RF-7 for rear, plus 2 powered subs, and this delivers the full impact of a live concert. And it has that wonderful tube sound. P.S. I just received bad news. The symphony is cancelled tonight due to ongoing snow. I can't remember that ever happening. Bummer.

IIRC, when we had a classical guitar concerto a few years ago in the symphony hall, the guitar did not use sound reinforcement. Violin soloists never use sound reinforcement in the symphony hall. However, when I heard Pepe Romero (and I think his son and two of his nephews) perform in a different venue, they used sound reinforcement. BTW, I have a Blu-ray that features Pepe Romero performing Joaquín Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez. Excellent audio and video. I'm hoping that Tatyana Ryzhkova releases some Blu-rays ...

The key is the venue. We are very fortunate in KC that benefactors donated money to build the Kauffman Center For The Performing Arts, which includes separate purpose-built halls: a world class symphony hall (Helzberg Hall), and a world class opera house (Muriel Kauffman Theatre). When the Kansas City Symphony performs classical concerts (i.e., the Classical Series for which I have season tickets) there is no sound reinforcement. Of course, when they perform outdoor concerts (e.g., Memorial Day) they must use sound reinforcement. Usually when I attend chamber concerts in various venues such as churches and an historic theater, no sound reinforcement is used. However, a few months ago I attended a chamber concert that was performed in a large meeting room of an office building, and sound reinforcement was used. I talked with the President of the organization that puts on this series of chamber concerts, and she said that they felt that sound reinforcement was needed in this particular venue, but it isn't used in any other venue they perform in. I was disappointed that sound reinforcement was used for this concert, but I complemented the sound board operator that he took a "minimalist approach" and provided only a small amount of amplification. There was a big stink (partly caused by me) when the opera company staged a musical (vs. opera) and used sound reinforcement. (The difference between opera singers and people who sing in musicals is that opera singers don't use microphones.) I've read that there are a few opera companies (other cities) that perform in halls with poor acoustics, and they use sound reinforcement. Use of sound reinforcement is very much frowned upon by opera purists.

When my local symphony performs classical music, no sound reinforcement system is used. No sound board. (Sound reinforcement is used when pop concerts are performed in the same symphony hall.) I've verified with the symphony's Executive Director that during the symphony's classical subscription series the only thing microphones are used for is recording. When my local opera company performs an opera, no sound reinforcement system is used. No sound board. (Sound reinforcement is used when musicals are performed in the same opera house.) I'm not a recording engineer. I don't doubt that sound boards, mixers, etc are used to facilitate recording.

I'm not sure what point you're making. I've said repeatedly that when listening to my home hi-fi system, I want the illusion that I'm in the symphony hall. And, I want inevitable imperfections to sound pleasant vs. unpleasant. Nothing is perfect, but many modern recordings do a good job of creating this illusion. All of the recordings that I've bought recently are Blu-ray audio/video of live classical concert performances featuring DTS-HD MA 5.0 and 1080p video. When the surround-sound is played back via my tube amps and Klipsch speakers, I think the audio quality is excellent, and there is an illusion I'm in the symphony hall. (And the HD video looks amazing on my plasma HDTV.) The reason I mentioned mid-hall is because that's where I sit when I attend the symphony.

There is no perfect approach to assessing the sound quality of a home hi-fi system, including mine. With that said, I attend more than 20 live classical concerts each year, and I have a pretty good idea how classical music sounds when performed in its intended venue (recognizing that there is some variance in the acoustics of different halls). The benchmark I use for the sound quality from my hi-fi system isn't perfect, but it has validity for me. And that's all that matters.

This thread appears to have become a contest in who can wear the other down via argument through repetition. I’m trying to avoid being baited into further beating a dead horse - however, I’m sorry to report that I can’t resist. Thus far 2 potential causes have been identified in this thread for differences in the sound quality for amps: tone controls, and non-linearity. I seriously doubt this list is complete. How do you explain the observation of some audiophiles that some amps sound “dry”, or aren’t “musically engaging”? IIRC someone rhetorically asked (many pages ago): “Is there a list of “approved” modern amps that meet some definition of ‘linearity’ “? I think that many audiophiles (vs. John Q. Public) would respond: Who cares? One thing this thread has established is that some of us value “musicality”, while others want to convince themselves that their hi-fi system is “accurate” (whatever that means), and some people appear to employ the “hope strategy”. Apparently, some people hope that they’re hearing what the record producers and engineers wanted them to hear. As I’ve said before, unless you’re using the same amp, speakers, and room treatment that was used in the recording studio control booth, or you have an EQ curve that mimics every recording studio in the world, I don’t understand how this makes sense. If you have your hi-fi system calibrated for flat in-room response (according to your “calibrated” mic and PC software), you’re probably not hearing what the recording engineers heard. My perspective is different. For the classical music I love, the recording engineers and producers aren’t the artists. For classical music, the composer, conductor, and musicians are the artists. (And BTW there is no sound-board operator, because there is no sound reinforcement system when classical music is performed in a symphony hall.) For the classical music I love, there is a clear benchmark for how the music should sound. I care what someone heard when sitting mid-hall during a live performance of the classical concert in a world-class symphony hall. I’m completely unmoved by an argument that says that I should buy any amp that is “linear” (and has adequate power, adequate features, and appealing aesthetics). I care about how the music sounds. Each consumer must decide their goals for their hi-fi system. And each consumer must employ a decision-making methodology that suits them.

Thanks for the explanation. I have no insight into the "Richard Clark $10,000 Amplifier Challenge" other than what ODS123 provided: Do we interpret the highlighted text above to mean that there were two different conditions that might have caused Clark to insert an equalizer into the audio chain of one amp, in an attempt to make the amps sound similar? If frequency tailoring circuits cannot be completely bypassed, OR If the amp's "input and output loading" affects frequency response. On one hand, this seems to me to be pointless speculation. OTOH, ODS123 cited the "Richard Clark $10,000 Amplifier Challenge" as strong evidence that all modern "linear" amps sound the same. I'm wondering if this assertion needs to be clarified to say something like "all modern amps that are linear for resistive loads, and are linear when connected to a wide range of loudspeakers"? If so, what's the difference between this statement and "In the real world, all modern amps don't sound the same?"