Idontknow

Just curious. I'm baffled by the need for subs with a pair of Forte's. Is this for two channel audio or movies? I can't even fathom listeners still wanting more bass with Forte's. Maybe for movies but two channel?

Wow that looks in beautiful shape!. I think you'd be crazy to sell those for something newer. Like I said, those are already amazing speakers! Complete waste of money to sell those and spend thousands more on newer models that most likely sound little to no better.

A big room and they are only 6 ft apart? Forget it. That's just too close for those speakers. I don't understand where you're going with all this using Cornwall's 6 ft apart. Break in isn't going to solve that problem anyway. Big mistake

My friend Brett who has my Bob Latino ST70 has the exact same pair with vertical horn and I absolutely loved their sound. I was very impressed with them. They had a robust, powerful soundstage with my amp. I heard stories about the vertical midrange having to do with laying the speakers sideways back in the day but I did some research on the vertical horn and nobody would pass a blind test in fact it’s probably good that the grills can’t be removed. Listeners would spend more time trying to convince themselves they can tell the difference. I think that much of our opinions are based on the idea that we know what gear we are listening to as we see it. Put a sheet in front of everything and there would be a lot less worrying about this stuff. If there were anything that might be possible to change, it would probably be the crossovers. I just had some new Crites crossovers put in my Forte 1’s and they sound absolutely incredible and as good or better than anything currently made. I would take those off your hands if I had the space. I just can’t fit them because they’re too wide. My friend Brett says that model was the best Cornwall made to date in his opinion. Personally I’m sure all the Cornwall’s sound great regardless of their era but yours sound great as well. Open the back up and look at how nice and solid the magnets are on those older speakers. Really nice IMO. Built solid with nice cabinets.

Lemme see if I can find the video. I don't think Schiit would ever announce something like this, but I'm not into all these obsessions people have with distortion with measurements because the people who measure don't explain what's really audible and what's not, plus nobody really knows how they measured it. Heck, look at tube amps, they hardly ever can measure well but listen to how amazing they can sound. It amazes me that those nuts on ASR think they can judge how something will sound based solely on measurements. That's absurd.

Chandz, I've not heard a Hagel yet. Have you ever compared it to tubes? Curious if you know about that. The First Watt amps are the only solid state amps I've heard so far that are literally indistinguisble from tubes in many cases. I struggle with solid state because of their muffled sound signature. Muffled in the sense that they don't produce any spatial separation compared to tubes. The Yamaha AS1200 for example was a big disappointment. Nice looking! lots of tight bass and power but no separation compared to tubes. Had that typical muffled sound I can't stand with jazz. It reminds me of a sock stuffed in a horn. It's like there's no airy openness as if the music can't breath. Half of my audiophile buddies are all into solid state but they haven't compared many things and they also listen to the types of music that tubes don't benefit with IMO. My friends hate that I love tubes. They tease me about having 3 watt single ended amps with old technology that don't measure well. I say until one sits down and listens to how well an amp can play at low volume, they'll never understand. They play their music so F.... loud, that's half their misunderstanding. My approach is how well it plays at low volume. High volume brings out more by a listeners perception.

Captianbeefheart, I'm hearing news that Schiit Audio is purposely making changes to some of their gear just so they can measure better because they don't want to lose the market to buyers who only rely on measurements. What's your opinion on this kind of approach? Can adding more internal filtration etc sometimes compromise sound? Not sure if they're doing this with Shakey's Aegir yet. Thanks

Shakey, those Schiit's are good value. Sounds like you made a good choice.

I like Kevin. No BS kind of guy.

That was a good video. I watched it earlier.

Alright Shakey, fair enough. Your comments obviously shed wisdom. Thanks

Wow! That's what matters most. If it's grabbing you, it's good in my book. Really happy for you to have that much enjoyment. CWIV I'm sure is a wonderful speaker.

I couldn't disagree more either. And, how do you expect to increase bass without a wall behind the listener? I don't think you're giving Flevoman as much credit as he deserves. Someone comes up with something constructive for once and you shoot it down at every angle between break in period and now it's the room. Both speakers are experiencing the same room. My room is set up the same way and it sounds amazing. I also have a room set up with the speakers so they face the direction of the long side of the room as well. There's nothing wrong with that room in the photo, certainly not a death knell.

Mustang, Good suggestions. Could you please explain what you meant regarding the tubes with felt? I didn't quite understand that. I like your suggestions on the equalizer. Sometimes it's good to add a little something if needed and I love McIntosh too. Gotta get one of their products again some day. I used to have a pair of MC30 monos along with a pair of C8's. Could you tell me the model of your McIntosh in your photo? Happy listening

Your finding coincide precisely with mine. I believe this is happening because those subtle details and audible space around them are being spread out more with the mid horn and perhaps becoming slightly less audible by comparison. This is the issue I'm having with these newer open midrange horns. I too found that the horn on my Heresy II was noticeably more effortless with air and space around it than that of the Heresy IV and this is probably because the mid horn is shorter or more shallow by comparison on the H IV. If you don't have this track on vinyl or CD and can stream, there's a really delicate test track my friends and I use to compare delicate subtleties at lower volume. I often play jazz late in the evenings at lower volume using single ended amps so I'm probably only using 1 watt of power with my Forte 1's which I absolutely love, particularly since they have phenolic tweeters. They just have a smoother and sweeter sound to my ears. At exactly 1 minute into this track called "Danny Boy" by Bill Evans, there's a very delicate splash on the symbols which emanates from the right channel. There's a few versions of this song, so make sure it's this one. Pay close attention to that symbol in the right channel, it's very delicate. It should come through effortlessly at low volume in a nice speaker. My Heresy 2's and Forte 1's present this so beautifully at low level volumes. Some of this will come from the right tweeter while some through the right side midrange horn. I hope to hear about more of your impressions in the future and really appreciate your thoughts. Best!

You did a constructive short review and I really respect and appreciated the comments you provided, particularly because you also explained how it depended on the kind of music being played which is often what creates much of the confusion and differences in opinions. I often prefer to know what people are listening to first before I even bother asking their opinion on a speaker. The comments you made regarding the bass and mid horn are spot on with my impressions as well which I commented on in my Forte 1 video that was nearly 30 minutes long, particularly with regard to the midrange horn as well. In my case, I was actually not surprised regarding your comments on the bass because I recently spent an afternoon with the Cornwall 1 which used the vertical horn and grills that can not be removed. I did tons of research on this mid range design but there were noticeable differences with the Cornwall's bass compared to the Forte 1. The way the bass projects itself would also be dependant on how or where the speaker was placed IMO so comments regarding others having a different experience regarding bass may have something to do with how their speaker was placed at the time of their listening experiences. I'm guessing that the newer CW IV midrange being neutral has something to do with the new, shallow shape of the mid horn. I had this same experience with the Forte 3's new midrange horn design which I didn't care for as much because it just seemed like the sound of the horns with jazz music were getting lost out in space more and less coherent. Perhaps the newer horn is better for more genres of music, however, for jazz which is most of what I listen to, I tend to struggle with the newer midrange designs on all the newer IV series. Imagine if the horn of a trumpet was opened up more. If it were opened more without proportionately making it deeper like the LaScala's horn for example, then the coherency would get lost and dispersed outward more. It certainly makes the horn look much nicer, but there has to be trade-offs that listeners ultimately have to decide on. I believe that this same effect is why you find the mid horn on the CW IV to be more neutral and maybe that's better as a general purpose speaker for some. Obviously many others seem to like the new IV but the issue I have with most reviews is the lack of information at describing what those differences are that led them to that conclusion. You didn't do that in your review but isn't it amazing how much the new IV series cost compared to the older speakers which are a half to a third the cost and even you are surprised at how little their differences were. When I compared my Heresy II to the newer Heresy IV, I was shocked at how much lower the volume sounded with the Heresy IV. I mostly use single ended tube amps with just a few watts, so I want every bit of efficiency I can get. At this point, I'm wondering if the more shallow shape of the Heresy IV's vs II mid horn is what caused that difference. Think about it more a minute. If a person was trying to yell at someone in the distance and didn't cup their hands around their mouth, then their voice wouldn't project out as easily. Put on a pair of earbuds or headsets and listen to the way the voices project out on the Heresy IV vs the Forte IV which has an even more spread out mid horn than the Heresy IV. If you listen carefully, you will notice that the Forte IV has beautiful detail BUT sounds more recessed or in the background more. This is most likely happening because the horn is spreading the sound out more and losing coherency. Steve Huff later admitted in a follow up video the exact same thing. He even said this himself. He described the Forte IV as a jack of all trades speaker. For jazz, I struggled with the newer Heritage lines which is precisely why I went with the Forte 1 over any of the other Forte's. It has the deepest bass of them all at low volume plus it has the traditional horn shaped midrange I prefer for jazz. I'm okay with a bigger horn, but IMO, the depth of the horn needs to be proportionate to the width which is why I think the LaScala and K-horn project so beautifully by comparison to anything. I'm cool with a bigger horn, but I think it needs to remain deeper. I think klipch is doing a good job on the newer IV for general purpose. Softer top end and in theory less of a horn sound by opening up the midrange mouth more. Maybe that's better for most. Klipsch Forte IV, Heresy IV, LaScala AL5 - Sound Demos #1 Klipsch Forte IV, Heresy IV, LaScala AL5 - Sound Demos #1

You did fine. I banned myself from ASR so you’re not alone. They’re cult like and all they do is base everything on measurements. You can’t know how something will sound because Amir measures it. That stuff is for real factory professional technicians. Amir is not a professional tech. Have you seen how many items they’ve measured. Nearly a thousand components. No one in their right mind could properly evaluate that much gear in a life time. They just measure it and that’s it. Amir doesn’t even like tubes because they measure bad. Hello!

In the end, I would never trust anything Amir has to say regarding listening impressions. He doesn’t understand the importance of matching gear and if he does, he obviously doesn’t practice it.

Haha! If the wait is still a year an a half then what incentive would I have to check whether or not they hired extra help. Perhaps you can be their spokesman and keep us all updated. Btw now you know why idontknow

Glad to hear this. How old are your LaScala’s?

Obviously hasn’t done much. The wait is still absurd.

I commented that I thought something sounded wrong with that RF7 sample. It’s not even close and it should be closer.

Well said.

Comparing speakers is tons of fun along with enjoying the music. I love comparing speakers and amps. I do the same with telescopes.