Amps for Heresy I's

[Tarheel TJ]

I will soon be purchasing a new amp to drive my Heresys I's. I am

fairly young and do not make that much money so my choices are limited.

I have been using one of those AMC tube amplifiers that were floating

around ebay a few years back. I know it wasn't anything special, but it

definitely made my horns sound a lot better than a cheapo sony receiver

(like I said, I'm on a budget here). Well I'm finally in a position

where I want to upgrade, and my AMC is crapping out on me and not

really worth fixing.

I want a tube amp of some sort, and I want it

to be a substantial upgrade from what I've been using. The options I

have considered so far are the Bottlehead Paramour II's, or (for over

twice the price) a Transcendent Sound T-16 OTL. I have heard a few

SET's over the years and I love the warmth of the sound, but I am not

sure I would want it all the time (I have very diverse music tastes).

Although I have never heard an OTL, I have heard excellent reviews from

others, and the design concept is very appealing to me (fast,

uncolored).

The only other issue is that I sometimes like my music

loud. Most of time I listen at reasonable levels, but what is the use

of having 98dB speakers if you cant crank 'em once in a while . With

my 30wpc AMC, this was never a problem; they had plenty of headroom. My

main questions are: Will the paramours at 3.5wpc be capable of louder

volume levels? Is the (assumed) better sound quality of the T-16 worth

the extra coin (@ $1550 w/ tubes they are a stretch for me)? Are there

any other <$1500 options that I should be considering? FWIW I am

proficient enough at slinging solder to put together a basic DIY kit (I

think), but I would not want to tackle a totally home-brew project.

Also, I use a powered sub for under ~70Hz if that helps. Thanks a lot in advance.

[Tarheel TJ]

Well I just checked the Bottlehead website and it seems that the Paramour II has been discontinued. Bummer. Does anyone have any equivalent SET suggestions for a similar price range? Should I just stick with the t-16 and call it a day?

[PrestonTom]

This may not be what you want to hear .....

Since you have a limited budget, you should target the right components of your system. The Heresy is a fine speaker, but if you want a real upgrade in sound don't put the money in another amp. Rather use that money for another set of speakers. The difference will be more profound than what you can get with another, more expensive, amplifier.

Please have a listen to Cornwalls, Chorus, Forte. Put your money in the speakers. Oh wait .... just my opinion.

[Tarheel TJ]

I appreciate your advice PrestonTom, but the problem is I need an amplifier. My AMC is dead, so if I invested in new speakers, they would have to be powered by a $100 Sony reciever as that is my only currently working amplifier. Having heard Heresys with tubes before (and with the Sony), I know the Heresys w/ tubes will sound better than say Cornwalls with the Sony. Do you agree? Do you have any other amplifer suggestions that might be a bit more reasonably priced compared to the T-16?

[PrestonTom]

I appreciate your advise PrestonTom, but the problem is I need an amplifier. My AMC is dead, so if I invested in new speakers, they would have to be powered by a $100 Sony reciever as that is my only currently working amplifier. Having heard Heresys with tubes before (and with the Sony), I know the Heresys w/ tubes will sound better than say Cornwalls with the Sony. Do you agree? Do you have any other amplifer suggestions that might be a bit more reasonably priced compared to the T-16?

Given the current market, you could sell the Heresies for $350 and then add $250 (now $600) and easily buy some Cornwalls. The Cornwalls with your Sony may actually sound okay. For another $200 you can buy a used Adcom GFA 545 or Hafler DH 200 or Carver 1.0t , etc etc. That would sound better. With another $25 in caps (since you can solder) the amps would then sound even better (search the threads over at DIYaudio or Audio Asylum)

Now, I have spent less than $600 of your money and you would now have Cornwalls with a fairly decent SS amp. That is not too bad of a deal.

However, I predict that you are now about to get a long list of suggestions for tube amps that are well beyond $600 to power the Heresy 1s. It is always easy to spend someone else's money.

Have a listen to the Cornwalls (or Chorus, or Forte etc) and see if you like them (even with a modest amplifier). Again, the Heresy is a fine speaker, but with a bit more money you can do quite a bit better. With amps, the incremental improvement per dollar is frequently smaller.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[Tarheel TJ]

Thanks again for the advice. That makes a lot more sense now that you elaborated. I will take a look around for some of the bigger Heritage speakers, but I have just finished restoring my Heresys and I'm a bit attached to them. I probably would not sell them even if I get another pair.

I was doing some searching on here and came across Bob Latino's site. He sells a Dynaco St-70 kit for $695. I've heard a lot about the old Dynacos but am not really interested in an amp restoration project (a bit over my head I think). This kit solves that problem though (this raises an interesting point, am I crazy to think that I can put together an amp kit but a restoration is too hard?). To those that have listened to a Klipsch/Dynaco combo; how would this compare to the Transcendent T-16? I know the T-16 is a bit overkill for the Heresys, but at least I could upgrade speakers in the future and still have a worthy amp. Ideas?

[G.Kennedy]

What about searching the used market for a mint condition .... Used Crown D-75A ..... one sold here a while back for less than $300.

It is an amp that will last a life time ... You are mentioning mono block amps, so I assume you have a preamp.

Tubes on a budget, does not make sense. I have Bottlehead Paramounts in a 300B ... they are awesome, but not really a lots of watts for the dollar.

I say stay solid state for now ... later in life upgrade to tubes and keep the D-75A/Heresy rig as a bedroom/ office system.

[fenderbender]

Another thing to remember in your budget is GIGO.......I have made the biggest improvements in all of my systems by upgrading the front end and source material...actually the only other upgrade I want to make is another TT

I'd put my heresy with my cheep but great Sansui au 7900 int rig......running my vpi/lyra TT up against multi thousand dollar monos and $$$$ reference speakers, running a cheap TT/Cart any day......as a matter of fact my main rig has about $12k worth of speakers and amps/pre's and my $450 heresy, sansui combo....with the same front end sound really good....OK it's not in the same league, but if I needed to I could live with and be very happy with the smaller system in a smaller room...

I hope that was coherent......PT gave you some great options....the hafler amps are an outstanding value and sound very very nice.......

the SET/OTL amps while very nice are a niche item....they do somethings very well but we are talking nuance ....I'd say if you had LaScala's and had already been through the usual suspects of tube amps and wanted to look for a little more detail, resolution, clarity....you may want to get a 300B amp.....but those tubes can get VERY pricy in themselves......

Some of the bryston st amps can be had for a good price, same as the Classe (30 year warranty) as well as the older nelson Pass designs.......Heck if you could find a Sansui Au 7900/9900/11000 you'd be set.........keep an eye on the Haflers......amazing little amp...

[oldmako]

Interesting thread. I am also in the market for an old 2 channel gem. Marantz units are well represented on ebay, but it's hard for me to know what's a deal and what not. I let an old Sansui 9090DB go for a song, not realizing what I had when the snaps, crackles and pops got to be too much. It needed significant repair, but from what I now know it was a worthwhile candidate for a refurb.

I currently run my CF3s on a recent 120W Sony 5.1. I pretty much hate it, but it was very cheap when I needed something. My Fortes are wired to an old Pioneer receiver in another part of the domo. It's pretty basic, and I know that I am sacrificing the quality of the speakers by using it. Last week, a gorgeous Phase Linear Amp/Preamp combo went for 400 bucks. I know little of them, except for the fact that when I was a kid, most of the Hi-Fi shops were using either one of these, or a Big Mac to run the demo speakers.

I'm not necessarily looking for Marantz, but I'd certainly consider one if the right one came along. I have contemplated holding out for a tube unit, but I'm not sure I have the funds to do it properly. All I know is that I really dispise most of the crap that comes with using a new, HT style receiver.

A friend suggested that I look for a Fisher 500C.....most of these go for around 350-425 on ebay, but how much $$$ does it then take to bring it up to speed?

So for now, I am on the fence and trying to learn as much as I can from the gear-heads here. Thanks for the tutorials!

[Tarheel TJ]

Thanks to all for the suggestions. At this point, I think I have narrowed the field down to a restored vintage amp of some sort (Eico, Dynaco, Scott or Heathkit, others?) or the transcendent. That is, unless you guys can convince me otherwise. I would still consider a good SET if I could find one at the right price (really wish the paramour II's were still available). I really like the vintage gear, but I am a little leery about buying something that old in unknown condition ( I am a hi-fi buff, not an electonics technician). Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[BLSamuel]

Personally, and I've only really skimmed the rersponses after Preston Tom's from people much more experienced and knowledgeable. I'd go with the Cornwalls.

Sure. The Heresy sound better with the tubes than the Sony.

And the Cornwalls quite likely will sound better with the tubes than the Sony.

But the Cornwalls with the Sony sound better than the Heresies with tubes? Maybe in some areas, overall I'd go with the Cornwalls though I only own a pair of Heresies (well kind of pimped out Heresies) so no real basis.

And Fender I've heard knows how to put together great sound so his advice can't be bad but I'm still in the better speakers have the biggest bang for the buck improvement train of thought.

Just my 0.2 db. YMMV

I've heard that vintage Scott tube amps do very well. And vintage Sansui, SS or tubes also are awesome. Those I've heard on Klipschorns, Belles, Forte's, Heresies, in some crazy thing called the "Wall Of Voodoo" all driven by Sansui, SS and tubes. Can't remember if it was SS or tubes I first head the Heresies I have on as that's whrere they come from. Doesn't matter as they sound wonderful. Not Klipschorn wonderful, especially not those Klipschorn wonderful but still pretty awesome. I've heard Fender's experienced the "Wall of Voodoo" at least a couple of times when not out in the shop downing a few Sam Adams.

Anyway have fun and enjoy!

[paully]

The Bottlehead S.E.X. amp can be had for a good deal less. That is an option as well. Look used. I am going to be selling mine. No pressure, but if you want one that is another option. If you can build the kits are really well designed, the manuals are second to none, and the sound is wonderful. I wouldn't part with mine but I went ahead and bought the Paramounts.

[Dmannnnn]

The S.E.X. amp would be a great way to get your feet wet. 2 Watts may or may not be enough for your listening levels, but the 8 watt 300B's on my HII's were overkill. I could have built them with the 3.5 watt 2a3's and had plenty of power.

FenderBender : "Some of the bryston st amps can be had for a good price, same as the Classe (30 year warranty) as well as the older nelson Pass designs"

For some warm Solid State do a search on the Nelson Pass ALEPH30. Read the reviews and then wait for one to come up for sale. $700-$900.

[Tarheel TJ]

Thanks to all for the responses and advice. I don't think 2 watts will be enough for my listening needs, but I have discovered some new options and would love to get yall's opinions. I think I have narrowed the selection down to four options (unless anyone has any more suggestions) in no particular order:

1. A restored Dynaco ST70 or a new kit. Price $250-$750

Advantages: That "classic sound", legendary components & designer, affordability, power, 6bq5 output tubes

Disadvantages: Unknown origin/age/condition requires full restoration, that "classic sound"?, not as resolving as a newer amp???

2. A Glow Audio Amp One Price ~ $550

Advantages: Brand new, single-ended design, attractive, supposed to sound great, incredible value, 6bq5 output tubes

Disadvantages: Made in China, Low power (though probably sufficient), integrated design, unnecessary LEDs under tubes (minor concern)

3. Quicksilver Mini-Mite Monoblocks ~ $1000/pair

Advantages: Monoblocks, made in America, powerful, supposed to sound great

Disadvantages: A little more expensive, ????

4. Transcendent T-16 ~$1550 with tubes

Advantages: OTL design, made in America, supposed to sound phenominal, Bruce's support for his products, they look great

Disadvantages: At the very upper limit (really a bit beyond) of my budget, you have to put it together (minor concern)

I would really love to get everyone's opinions on these amplifiers. My main question is what are the sonic differences between these. They are all very different designs so they should sound different. Which would be the best match for Heresys? Which are more likey to have high resolution and which are more likely to sacrifice resolution for warmth etc.? Any general impressions or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[fenderbender]

Tarheel.....If you are considering a Dynaco you may want to look at these: http://www.tubes4hifi.com/bob.htm

Bob Latino has a great rep, just do a web search....I know mark1101 from the forum has the st110 and swears it's the best tube amp he's ever owned

I think they are around $575 for the kit with many many upgrades to the original st70.....

I'm prejudiced ...if you are willing to spend the $ on the Transcendent....you may want to look at the Rogue Atlas (Not an OTL)....$1395 with el84s for a few hundred more you can get the "Magnum" version ......I've been through a lot of amps.....SS and tube and this is one special amp!!!! I've never heard a tube amp out SS a SS amp with all the benefits of sparkling mids. and very transparent/neutral......this puppy out preforms amps 4-5 times the cost!!!!

Ok I have verbal Diarrhea ...... to much coffee....I'll shut up now

[paully]

I have said this before, I love the Dynaco I have (I have one of those too) but do keep in mind that your $250 is your entry point. You may not have the trouble I did with my first one, but I ended putting close to $1,000 into it due to problems I had (tubes, sockets, power supply upgrade, transformer, new driver board) etc... I doubt you would spend that much, most of it wasn't absolutely necessary. But some of that vintage equipment looks cheap, and it is relatively speaking, but like an old car you never know what is under the hood. Unless you can solder and do some basic trouble shooting I would think twice. The new kits from Dynakitparts.com, I have always wanted to hear one of those. And Bob Latino's ST-70 looks fantastic as well. But for the output transformers you either have to buy Magnequest or buy vintage, IMHO. But if all that doesn't worry you, a Dynaco is a great option that opens up a world of speakers and I have enjoyed mine though I like my Bottlehead Paramounts more. Also, keep in mind that the ST-35 is the one with the 6bq5 tubes, the ST-70 runs EL34.

I don't know the others personally so I won't comment.

[paully]

I originally had my Paramounts configured for 300B but converted them to 2a3. Difference in sound? Not much actually, at least to my ears. I think they are great either way. I just haven't bothered to go back as 3.5 watts seems to be plenty of power in my Chorus II. But knowing what I know now if I had Paramounts configured for 300B the only reason I would even consider converting them is the cheaper tube options available in 2a3. The 300B sound fantastic but to do any rolling gets a tad expensive and NOS are just not affordable at all. I also ran the S.E.X. amp into the Chorus II and at 2 watts volume and dynamics always seemed just fine to me also.

Paul

[Tarheel]

This is going to be confusing[^o)] Two Tarheels?

[edwinr]

I'd be very reluctant attempting to drive the Heresys with a low powered SET amplifier. 2 or 3 watts is not enough. The Heresys like to be driven be an amplifier with a bit of clout. A good quality solid state is a better choice - maybe a Creek or something similar. If you're going to go tubes, try something with decent power - say 20 to 30 watts per channel. That Dynaco kit mentioned earlier uses EL-34's doesn't it? They're good for around 30 odd watts per channel. Maybe that's the way to go if a tube amp is desired...

It'd be fun to build as well.

[ddarch]

Hi,

I agree strongly with one of Tarheel TJ's suggestions: The Quicksilver Mini-Mite. These come up used on Audiogon for under $750 regularly. I bought a pair of these monoblocks, and love their sound through my Heresy I and my Cornwalls. You can check the stats here:

http://www.quicksilveraudio.com/products/mini_old.html

If you buy new, Mike is just wonderful to deal with. However, I think used is safe, as these are well built.

Dave