ChrisK Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 6 months ago I was happy listening to my HT system for music. Now I have tubes, horns, and a vintage tuner. (My wife thanks you Kelly.) Next stop...vinyl. And I've already put the proverberial cart before the horse here. I've been cruising the local thrift shops and have picked up over 100 LP's. This before even owning a turntable. Geez, what a loser.... Anyway, a few questions: 1. What are the best methods for cleaning and maintaining vinyl? (Let's not go berserk here, please.) 2. What about storage? The paper inserts seem cheap and abrasive. 3. Turntable recs? Is "vintage" applicable here? Seems like you can spend all you want on a TT. Where does the law of diminishing return kick in? 4. How about reasonable phono stages (phono pre amp?). 5. Anything I missed? I've cruised AudioAsylum's vinyl forum and it's just too damned technical for me. Kelly, (and the rest of you experienced type kooks here for that matter) it's your fault I'm in this mess. You'd better have some answers or it's gonna get ugly and someone's gonna get hurt... Chris ------------------ 2 channel Klipsch Cornwalls (1978) Cary CAD 300SEI amp (WE 300B's, various NOS 6SN7's) Arcam Alpha MCD cd player Sony 5000F Tuner (1968) HT Klipsch KG2.5 (front & rear) Klipsch KV2 (center) Klipsch SW12 (sub) Marantz SR700 receiver Toshiba DTS DVD JVC SVHS VCR Sony Hi8 VCR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barista Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Mmmmmm, vinyl!! Let me take a stab at #1, experts correct me where I go astray. Playing vinyl in my house is a very ritualistic experience. Hehehehe. My wife thinks I'm crazy at times. But if you take care, your vinyl will outlast you. When I go shopping for used vinyl, I use Grove Glide $25 for initial cleaning when I get it home (And on new records), and treatment. One treatment should last for a long time (Forever with good care?). In my experience, this cleaner works wonders. Got rid of a lot of analog hiss and smoothes out some minor pops. Overall it helps produce a cleaner sound with less noise. Then I use a good carbon fiber brush like this Audio Quest $15 before playing a record that I remove from the sleeve. Just to make sure I don't drive more dirt into it that I have to. If you really want to play around with some snake oil. Get some Last Stylist Cleaner and some Last Stylist Treatment . Can't say for fact if ether of these do anything. Some claim they do, for me it's just a piece of mind, and part of the ritual! I'm not affiliated with www.needleDocter.com , but they have always been very friendly to me, full of good advice, and have a terrific online selection. ------------------ Barista T. Bill This message has been edited by Barista on 02-12-2002 at 11:29 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 All this typing... At least I got a project done today. And I close on this place in 1.5 hours. First house purchase. My bowels hurt. I have this thing I am trying to put together about ye olde Monarchy Audio SM-70 as well. Poor Ed is scratching head on that one. I'll try to get something meaningful to you by this eve. Did I tell you about my bowels? What a supremely horrible word. It rolls off the keyboard however. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Are you buying the whole building or just the unit you have been renting? I read a earlier post on what the going rate for property is there. Your Bowels will hurt when you do the yearly Taxes on that pad. Gotta be a nice place, though. Now that Monarchy Amp isn't gonna ruin your prejudice towards Solid State, is it? Good luck on the Closing, Kelly. THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Now THIS is where I hope to read about the SM-70...in a thread about vinyl! Not to hurry 'ole mh...go close on ye pad and tell us about that SS beast tomorrow or the next day. I sincerely hope you enjoy a bit 'o the bubbly tonight in celebration as I know this closing has been a long time coming. Congrats! ------------------ Ed W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Congratulations, Kelly! There is nothing like owning your own home. I am now on my third (first one was 1986) and I really think this one is a keeper. The only problem is that the ducats have to get spread around between the audio upgrades, golf trips, Corvette mods and house improvements. It just never ends... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Hey Mike... If I get down in your neighborhood can you recommend a nice golf course? I am an enthusiastic (read not talented) golfer Maybe I can listen to your stereo too ------------------ Ed W This message has been edited by edster00 on 02-14-2002 at 06:45 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Hello Chris, I use a Creek OBH-8SE preamp with a Grado Gold cartridge. I consider my equipment entry level but very enjoyable. The Creek does not use op-amps, and I think that's important. In the Feb/Mar 2002 Absolute Sound there is a review of a "Gram Amp 2 SE" that goes for $220. That's interesting. My turntable is Dual CS 431, and I would suggest you get something better. Still: from the Philidelphia Orch. doing Bartok's Concerto for orchestra, through Nick Drake, and back to Judy Collins' "5th Album" that modest equipment sounds beautiful through tubes and RF-7s. No-feedback amps and records are especially nice. I give real dirty records (that I've picked up at a used outlet, or from my father) a bath with warm water and mild dish detergent. I use a series of disk brushes to wash and then rinse, and then rinse, and then rinse ..shake, then damp-dry with soft towel. Next is isopropyl alcohol (the lower % variety), which I apply then dry with different brushes. The alcohol will absorb remaining water. Next is Last Record Preserve System Formula 2 (this is where I ave gotten all of my brushes over the years). Be sure to mark records that have been treated because the treatment lasts for 200 plays. I clean the needle with Last Stylus Cleaner System Formula 4. and then apply Last Stylus Treatment System Formula 5. Then I play the record. Subsequent playings involve a quick brush with isopropyl alcohol then dry (both with the record spinning on the turntable, and stylus cleaning and lube. The bath can be skipped for new or reasonably clean used records. I can say that each of the above steps makes a positive difference. Don't tell anybody I do all this when I play records. Kelly, congratulations on the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Turner Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Chris... You must exercise GREAT CARE at this point else the vinyl addiction will take hold. I purchased a way-to-expensive turntable and even-more-ludicrous cartridge two years ago then I started adding to my collection of vinyl. I now have approximately 2000 high quality used lps in addition to a pre-CD collection of about 700. I make weekly trips to the nearby Goodwills and Salvation Army stores (Thursday is best before the Friday lunch and Saturday morning shoppers). I occasionally just buy a box full at a garage sale (you'll see a box with 5 or 6 good ones ....offer them $20 for the whole box...then get them home and realize the rest of the box is Christian records). Next you'll need a digital stopwatch so you can bid on the really good sealed lps on ebay in the last 30 seconds of the auction. Soon you'll realize you will not be able to clean and listen to all the records within your natural lifetime. I concur with an earlier post needledoc is a good source of objective information. I have reservations, however, about spraying Groove Glide on records. Needledoc sent me a bottle of this in thanks for my initial order but I've yet to use it...there was a miracle fluid back in the 70s they later discovered degenerated after a few years and gunked up your records. A couple of pieces of useful advice...even if you purchase a used turntable get a new cartridge. If your preamp has a phono stage check with needledoc...it may be fairly good. If you get a moving coil cartridge get the Cardias Sweep lp...it works wonders. I would highly recommend saving your pennies for a wet-vac record cleaning machine...you will realize more audible difference from a clean record than from an high end turntable and cartridge. Having both is like heaven. And yes Dorothy, vinyl sounds better than CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiming Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Hi Chris, I did the exact same thing! I had 30 LPs before I got my TT Ok, this is my take on your questions :- 1. I believe in cleaning all LPs I purchased using my KAB EV-1 cleaner. You can view it here at KAB EV-1 After cleaning, I will put the cleaned LPs in new VRP rice paper sleeves. For maintenance, I use a Hunt EDA carbon fiber brush to remove surface dust from the LP I am about to play. These steps help keep the LPs clean and static-free and protect the needle on the cartridge. 2. The paper sleeves are ok, but I also use the Discwasher VRP rice paper sleeves. You can view them at VRP 3. Can't help here as my TT is itself >20 years old and still going strong I think for US$2000, one can get a really excellent table that will keep one satisfied. 4. Cheap phono stages are the NAD PP-1 or ProJect Phonobox (around US$100?). These are really lacking but they are a good for the budget-conscious. The best budget dedicated phono stage is the Rotel RQ-970 (around US$200?). Then there will be the Creek unit, the Lehmann Black Cube, EAR unit etc etc. Quite a lot of phono stages in the market actually. Can't help in choosing one as I am still using a NAD as I am planning on constructing my own based on the DACT phonostage. 5. If you have any questions regarding vinyl, most probably it has been covered in the Vinyl Asylum. Just do a search on the topic you are interested in and be prepared to read Hope the above helps. -------- My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Blorry Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Wow. All this effort for vinyl. I was really anal retentive with my records when all we had was vinyl, but I never went to these lengths! It is good to know companies are making quality vinyl cleaning products, but I guess you can go as far over the top with this as folks do with cabling... I still have my JVC direct drive turntable that I bought new in college and my still killer Shure V15 Type III! Rarely use it though, cause it's too much of a hassle, but when I do, I still use my original Discwasher! It still amazes me that it survived all those sloppy, drunken college parties ------------------ 1 pair Mahogany KLF-30s 1 Mahogany KLF-C7 1 pair Walnut 1977 Heresys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 my head hurts.... kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 02-13-2002 at 02:35 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Blorry Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 Dude...You're gettin' a headache... ------------------ 1 pair Mahogany KLF-30s 1 Mahogany KLF-C7 1 pair Walnut 1977 Heresys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 Ahh, it's nice to know that only about $2000 for a TT plus a few hundred more for a phono preamp and a few hundred more for a record cleaner can put you in vinyl heaven! Then start snarfing up all those great Christian albums available at the Goodwill! After a half hour of cleaning sit down and enjoy twenty minutes of bliss.... Gee, where do I sign up? How is it that I haven't done this yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 mh- Now that you are a home owner it certainly isn't proper to call you mobile homeless...maybe we should call you mobile home now? How about Manufactured Housing? The initials still fit... ------------------ Ed W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiming Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 Sometimes I wonder about the logic in spending like so. However, I rationalize it this way. This is a hobby, so spending insane amounts of money to derive a shred/sliver of contentment & enjoyment is worth it Actually, US$2000 total can be used to purchase all the hardware required to delve into vinyl (Rega P3, Rotel RQ, KAB EV and carbon fiber brush) I guess it depends on how much one is willing to spend. Some people make do with US$500 CD players while others spend US$20,000 on a Linn Sondek CD player. Others spend thousands on cables while others spend the minimum on cabling. It is all up to an individual. quote: Originally posted by Randy Bey: Ahh, it's nice to know that only about $2000 for a TT plus a few hundred more for a phono preamp and a few hundred more for a record cleaner can put you in vinyl heaven! Then start snarfing up all those great Christian albums available at the Goodwill! After a half hour of cleaning sit down and enjoy twenty minutes of bliss.... Gee, where do I sign up? How is it that I haven't done this yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 I agree that getting into the vinyl game at this late date is a somewhat dubious proposition, but some of us weren't stupid enough to **** -can all of our records back in the late 80's and have continued enjoying them! I have somewhere between 2000 and 2200 LPs here (plus about 700 CDs), about 90% of them jazz. I have records that I bought for $2 used in Berkeley in the early 70's that are worth serveal hundred dollars each (original Blue Notes, Norgrans, Pacific Jazz, etc.). It would be really crazy to try to put my collection together at today's ebay prices. I do buy new vinyl--especially the Classic, Analogue, and Sperakers Corner jazz issues--at $25-$30 a pop they're not cheap, but the quality is superb! And you're right about the dreck available at most yard/flea sales--it's 99.9% crap. But just two weeks ago I picked up two early Stan Getz records-- the box set of "Stan Getz at the Shrine" on Norgran (1954) and "The Steamer" on pre-MGM Verve (1959) for a total of $7. It's the best find I've had in YEARS--these would ebay for $400 EASY! And I am so totally convinced that vinyl--even with the associated surface noise and occaisional tic or pop, is so far superior to CD that my response to anyone who tries to argue the opposite is that "you haven't heard a good vinyl rig in a while, have you?" As long as I can keep getting get my SPUs retipped vinyl will never die in my house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 Ed, If you get down to my neighborhood, let me know you're coming and I will go with you. There are many to choose from depending on what side of Orlando you are on. I live on the NE side and there are not quite as many nice ones here but the price is right. Let me know when you are coming down... Mike quote: Originally posted by edster00: Hey Mike... If I get down in your neighborhood can you recommend a nice golf course? I am an enthusiastic (read not talented) golfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 Mike, That would be great! I am probably going to be in the Sebring area sometime in mid to late March, maybe I could take an extra day and get in a round of stereo. ------------------ Ed W This message has been edited by edster00 on 02-14-2002 at 06:44 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfreek Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 I bought my Rega Planar 3 for $450 in minty mint shape(with original box and unused lid) and sprung for the Rega Super Elys cartridge. All for under $800. Even the $100 entry level phono preamps are gonna smoke any receiver's phono stage so you hafta opt for that. I've been super-pleased with the Parasound I bought. I compared it against the Creek and the NAD and to me it had more defined/smoother bass. It only cost $145 or so if I remember correctly. As far as cleaning I guess I'm an outcast since that's all I use is a very very smooth piece of cotton cloth. I was one of the unfortunate Discwasher users of the 80's and every one of my LPs I've used them on have a coating that creates a lot of surface noise and I've been unable to get rid of it. I'm also a Goodwill, thrift-store & record store $1 bin scavenger. I've pulled hundreds of gems from the $1 bin. Always on the lookout for a copy of Michael Viner's Incredible Bongo Band or anything by David Axelrod. One day...one day. ------------------ Outlaw 1050 A/V Receiver Rega P3 Turntable AMC CD8b CD Player Toshiba 3108 DVD Player Klipsch KG 4.2s(main) 2 Dynaco A-10/V IIs(centers) Cerwin Vega E-706s(rears) Cerwin Vega LW-12(sub) Parasound PPH-100 Phono Preamp Vampire Wire Digital Interconnects & Speaker Wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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