new to forums - with 1000's of questions

[computerjunky]

hi everyone,

I have never owned any klipsch speakers, but after listening to a set i have the bug REAL bad to get some. So here is what i am thinking and also a couple questions for those with more experience building out HT systems...

first, my existing system is a 10+ year old low end system. Speakers were made by Solid, which i beleive was a low end brand for B&W... They were originally 1,500. These consist of 4 very small speakers a center chanel and a base unit 10". the small speakers have 5"driver and a small tweeter. center has 2 5" drivers. all are driven by an old technics 100w per channel av receiver.

existing speakers: http://www.bwspeakers.com/downloadFile/speakerModel/done-_product_info_Solid_Series.pdf

Room is 18x18 with one wall (rear) 3/4 open to a kitchen dining area. Now the existing system is capable of filling the room with sound, but it seems to be lacking in a lot of areas. Could be the receiver or just the lack of speaker size.

proposed new system:

RF-63 Home Theater System speakers: 2 rf-63, 1 rc-64, 2 rs-62 and 1 rt-10d

Pioneer SC-09TX a/v receiver

now this is a VERY big step up in system quality and investment, so my question is this.

Is this system to big for my room?

Are there any advantages to maybe going with rf-83 speakers and a little lower end AV receiver for about the same investment.say a dennon avr-5308ci?

How do i deal with the rear speaker not having a wall to be mount it on. unless I mount it at ceiling level like the existing speakers are.

Any other suggestions and/or comments would be appreciated.

[wuzzzer]

As far as being too big for your room, I think you'll be fine. Be aware that perfectly square rooms (18x18 like you mentioned) are the worst rooms as far as bass output and general sound quality.

I wouldn't skimp on the receiver.

In a 5.1 system your surround speakers should be placed to the sides of the listening position and slightly above your ears. Rear surrounds are only used in a 7.1 configuration.

[USNRET]

Welcome to the money pit!

I have no experience with the Klipsch RF line (except a little in the way of RS-7 surrounds). After 30+ years of audio tom foolery I have an opinion that you should spend your money on the best speakers you can get. That doesn't mean the most expensive, simply shop, shop, shop or rather listen, listen, listen and buy what you like to hear. Electronics in the HT world are constantly changing...more of this, better that, new and improved, yada yada. As you can see from my sig line I have Denon, had Sony ES, NAD and others. For what a 5308 or the Pioneer would cost I would bet you could get a very nice pre/pro and seperate amps (Emotiva and Outlaw have been mentioned on this site often and are reasonable). There are very smart people around these parts and can steer you straight. How about posting a couple of pics of the front, sides and rear of room. Also, where are you located? Shouldn't be hard to find a Klipsch-a-holic nearby to give you a sample.

Good luck!

[winchester21]

Welcome- Dont go for the 83s unless you have a Real good reciever with a ton of clean power-The more power the better with RF83s.I would say 130+ would be advisable. Your room is fine for that system. Personally, I think that there are better subs for the money than the RT10d. Look outside the brand. For the rears consider RB61s or RB81s on elevated stands if no wall.I would not use RF 63s with the other stuff you are looking at. The RC 64 is a beast and pairs better with the 83. You are on the right track. Get some 2nd and third opinions and try to listen to as much stuff as possible in person. My 2cents worth. Enjoy.

[Youthman]

My room is 13' x 19' with 10' ceilings. Definitely not too big for my room and shouldn't be for yours.

[computerjunky]

"rear" speakers go on the sides? interesting, learn something new every day..... that may solve the placement problem.......

not much i can do about the room, unless i want to build a new room or move to a new house..... so i expect i will have to do the best i can with what i have... as far as the room acustics go i am hoping good quality equipment and speakers will compensate to some degree.

btw remember my point of reference is pretty low at this point. i am running an av receiver that was $300 10 years ago.... the new receiver alone should prove to be an improvement in sound quality. and remember there is no back wall to this room. on 2/3 of the room. expecially right behinde the listening area. the room actually extends another 15"into another room.

[Youthman]

"rear" speakers go on the sides? interesting, learn something new every day..... that may solve the placement problem.......

Back in the day of regular Dolby Prologic, rear speakers went behind you. Now that we've moved into Dolby Digital, DTS and the new HD Audio formats, Dolby and THX suggest placing the "surround speakers" on the side walls and the "back speakers" behind you. This diagram should help.

[tommyboy]

IMO, there is no such thing as a system too big for a room! When I was in the barracks still, I had the SF1 package, and the room was about 8*10.........

[InVeNtOr]

welcome!

i have a square room too (16' 3"). i thought my rf-7's were going to be too much. i was wrong. with the volume at 63 (relative scale, about 2/3) sounds good. in my room the couch is moved up so the room remains square, but i am more in the middle of it. i have pics of it in the "lets see your home theater" section, i think around page 112/111. i have one open wall, the only structure i have on that side is a colum and a half wall.

i would suggest getting some rs-42's for our room. they will sound the same and do the same job. i have 4 ea for a 7.1 and they keep up just fine. it's a way to save a few penny's and get the same quality. i wouldn't get the rs-52's because they are the same as the 42's but physically bigger. they are designed to fill a larger room, but if you need to, you can turn them up. (meaning when you use a spl meter you can have it louder than the rest).

i echo the others, you always want to spend the most on the speakers, those never need upgrading, you do those when you want to. electronics keep getting better and cheaper. if you already think you want the 83's, and you have heard them, i would get those two and a good receiver first. then go out and buy the rest once you have more money. i don't know whats in your account so it's hard to suggest a buying order. by all means if you can get it at once, do it. that's what i did, i can't stand waiting!

i wouldn't put any surrounds in the ceiling. you want the surrounds 2-3' above seated listening positioning. i would suggest speaker stands if possible.

[falcon20x]

The RF 63 will do just fine but if you think you might want and can afford the 83 then get them. You will not regret it.

I do not quiet agree with the statment saying they need a lot of power, in fact that is one of the 2 major improvement of the 83's over the 7's

If you can I would consider a different sub, I think you can get a much better one for the price.

The receiver is your biggest delima, I would not spend mega money on something which will be outdated in 2 months. If you are going to spend over $ 1500 for it, you should take a hard look at separate brands such emotiva and outlaw. You will be cover on the power side and with there trade in program you will be able to keep up with the changes for fairly cheap.

The rear speakers on a 5.1 are indeed positionned on the sides, only the 7.1 has speakers in the rear. DO NOT trade the RS 42 for bookshelves on a 5.1.

On the same note going from the RS 42 to the 52 may not make a big difference but if you can get the RS 62 you will be in Heaven.

[USNRET]

IMO, there is no such thing as a system too big for a room! When I was in the barracks still, I had the SF1 package, and the room was about 8*10.........

Ahh, the good old days, stacked Chorus IIs and Quartets in a barracks room. Shared I might add with a roomie that had those 901 series ones.

And I'll put my vote in with the others on the sub. Do not be leery of going with HSU (here's where you can save some budget), SVS and others instead of keeping a 'matched' set of brand.

[winchester21]

A few additions to previous comments. I had bookshelf speakers- Rb61s and Rb81s in a 7.1 system mounted high on the wall firing down toward the listening area upon the advice of the tech service service people at klipsch given my room situation. It sounded great and quite frankly with the set of Rf 83s I had hooked up for a day- was maybe the best reference system that I have ever heard. I would have really liked to hook up a set of rs 62s on the side to check them out but that option was not available without buying them. I am sure that any of the RS series would fit your needs very well if you decide to go in that direction.

With the reference stuff you are condsidering- power is everything. Unless you have to have to have the latest whiz bells and whistles bang streaming function receiver, consider this course of action. Look around for a flagship the previous generation of receivers- like a Sony 5300ES, Denon, Marantz,or other brands popular on this forum.Look for a discontinued model or a floor model demo-- for about 40-50% of retail- with a warranty Another trick is to pickup some pre owned separate power amps off e-bay for a song. Crowns- Carvers- B&Ks. Worlds of difference for nickels and dimes.

Have not heard the outlaws but definitely worth considering based on the opinions expressed on this forum.

I did a ton of research and comparison on the Rf83s for several months. I listened to 3 different sets at a buddys house, at my house, and at the dealer. Three different recievers and two different power amps ranging from 150- 250 WPC. When I started looking at the 83s I read a description somewhere- Vanns I think-describing the 83 as "very efficent even at low volumes". This got my attention and was one of the primary deciding factors in choosing this speaker. This would imply that an average or low end HT receiver would drive the 83s just fine. That may be true to some extent but I came away -after extensive listening and consideration that the Rf83 needs power- a lot of power. I had several conversations with the tech support folks at klipsch and i could never get them to say that this was an efficent speaker. They said that this speaker was for the person who likes louder volume levels with increased performance. The speaker is absolutely phenominal with say a 200 WPC amp driven at medium to higher volume levels. It sounded perfectly acceptable with the 100 WPC HT receiver but the 250 watt Carver hookup was definitely an OMG moment.IMHO the speaker is designed for the mid- higher volume levels and deserves the best very solid state amplifiers that the owner can afford.I liked the speaker so much that I relented on finding something efficent and decided to buy it anyway. The dealer screwed the deal up at the last instant and sent me packing down the heritage trail of financial ruin.

Dude- Buy the Rf 83s and put some power to those bad boys. You will will be thrilled with the results.

[jacksonbart]

I have at least a 1000 answers to questions that no one would ever ask.

[computerjunky]

i would suggest getting some rs-42's for our room. they will sound the same and do the same job. i have 4 ea for a 7.1 and they keep up just fine. it's a way to save a few penny's and get the same quality. i wouldn't get the rs-52's because they are the same as the 42's but physically bigger. they are designed to fill a larger room, but if you need to, you can turn them up. (meaning when you use a spl meter you can have it louder than the rest).

thanks for the suggestion on the 42's..... guess i just jumped into the deapend of the pool.... someone show me where the kiddy pool is!!!!!!

WOW... lots of varied advice here... now i am more confused than i was before! In one thread i hear nothing but you must match your speaker specs or they don't sound right, then in another i hear don't be afraid to mix and match..... guess i haven't done near as much homework as i thought i had when i posted this.....

as for the receiver i had a couple criteria to meet with it. i wanted good clean power. i wanted good video upscaling... i wanted good sound quality with music... and i liked the ability to stream the music from my computer....

so i was looking at the denon AVR-5308CI and the pioneer sc-09tx... from reviews and stuff i read both received high marks in quality.... the pioneer was winning on ease of use... based on what i have read..... you must remember i am not yet the master of tuning a system at this point and don't want to have to wait a year while i learn how before the thing sounds good.... both come with a setup program that is stated by people to be both good and bad at the same time, but all agree that it gets you to a good starting point....

am i going wrong with the choices i am making, are ther alternatives that meet my criteria that i have yet to discover?

keep in mind i am basicly lazy, i want to buy high end enough that i can keep it for a long time before it just will not do what i want anymore. (hopefully not 10 years this time)

[computerjunky]

Back in the day of regular Dolby Prologic, rear speakers went behind you. Now that we've moved into Dolby Digital, DTS and the new HD Audio formats, Dolby and THX suggest placing the "surround speakers" on the side walls and the "back speakers" behind you. This diagram should help.

gee thanks for making me feel old.. i am still in those days... that is why i am trying to upgrade stuff.

[computerjunky]

Back in the day of regular Dolby Prologic, rear speakers went behind you. Now that we've moved into Dolby Digital, DTS and the new HD Audio formats, Dolby and THX suggest placing the "surround speakers" on the side walls and the "back speakers" behind you. This diagram should help.

gee thanks for making me feel old.. i am still in those days... that is why i am trying to upgrade stuff.

[InVeNtOr]

as far as mixing and matching, you have to look at what they are using their system for. you also have to take into account which series of speakers they are using. the speakers that matter the most as far as "matching" (other wise know as Timber Matching) are the front 3 speakers (Mains, and Center). the side surround in a Home Theater 5.1 or 7.1 set up don't matter all that much. as long as you have them placed correctly and use the correct series of speakers in the correct place.

if you are going to listen to lots of music, you may want to have more RF's than RS's or RB's. some people here prefer to have 4 rf-7's for their home theater (i just mean 4 of the same tower speaker, not necessaryly that exact same speaker) in stead of 2 rf-7's, and 2 rs-62's for example. i use my system 99.999% for movies, so i use 4 ea rs-42's. i listen to the radio in "all channel stero" and to me, it gets the job done.

i agree with falcon there are better subs for the money. SVS, Epik, and eD (elemential designs) are a few that are popular.

[Youthman]

I grew up "back in those days" as well. I'm 33 with 4 children under 9 and started getting grey hair when I was 25. Life hits you fast and it doesn't take long for all of us to begin feeling old. But to me, old is only a state of mind.

[Fotog]

I think you'll be quite happy with whatever Klipsch grouping you decide upon. 1 - it is an upgrade over your current and 2 - Klipsch makes great speakers. Buy what sounds good to YOU. Research shopping is the best kind. Doesn't even cost you anything untill you make a decision. [H]

[computerjunky]

guess it's off to listen some more...