Marvel Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The MWM bass bin will not fit in most living rooms...it's footprint is far too big..too deep and too wide and requires a minimum of 4 of them to do justice to the sound. Says who? You don't have a normal livving room, anyway. The MWMs will do 43 acoustic watts IIRC. You can stand them on end like the Altec 210 cabinets (picture of a modified single shown). Then they would only be 34 inches wide. That's what I plan on doing in my living room, but I will go with a single on each side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie1dog Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 The MWM bass bin will not fit in most living rooms...it's footprint is far too big..too deep and too wide and requires a minimum of 4 of them to do justice to the sound. Says who? You don't have a normal livving room, anyway. The MWMs will do 43 acoustic watts IIRC. You can stand them on end like the Altec 210 cabinets (picture of a modified single shown). Then they would only be 34 inches wide. That's what I plan on doing in my living room, but I will go with a single on each side. You can stand yours on end but they will still stick out 4 ft into your room.....they are a really deep speaker. Wouldn't work the way my RH side corner is configured.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Wouldn't work the way my RH side corner is configured. Bummer! Oops, my misspent youth is showing again.For me to get far enough back in my living room, I must have my speakers on the short wall. However, it isn't a wall, but a pass through to the rest of the house, meaning I can't have the MWMs in the normal config, as I would only have a narrow pass through to get into the LR. That's why I'll try them on end (appropriate stands to be made to hold them up, of course... [:|] ) Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Just snug your MWMs up into a corner and they just almost disappear....Don't buy that one? OK pretend they are a workbench or a bookshelf...or a dining table. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 MWMs are multi-functional! Yet another selling point! How have I got along without a pair for this long? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie1dog Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 MWMs are multi-functional! Yet another selling point! How have I got along without a pair for this long? It's called a "wife"......the #1 reason a set of speakers are either brought into your house or not.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie1dog Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Back on topic....I did quite a bit of research this weekend on the web and found out that mainly only the dispersion pattern is affected by using different horns on a particluar driver....yeah , before you start flaming me, there are subtle differences in the freq response here and there. So I found out that I like the 120 degree models and most of them are about 7" high like the one on the Opera M15 speaker shown here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 hobie1dog "and found out that mainly only the dispersion pattern is affected by using different horns on a particluar driver...." sure...across simular sized horns...throat area size and exit area size... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie1dog Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 hobie1dog "and found out that mainly only the dispersion pattern is affected by using different horns on a particluar driver...." sure...across simular sized horns...throat area size and exit area size... Right, as I was looking at a 2" throat driver with different horns attached to it and looking at the freq response curves, to see how it affected the response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie1dog Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 The other horn which looked like the best design of all is at this website http://www.acoustichorn.com/products/500/index.html A conical/radial horn. After reading about it, most standard horn designs seemed flawed. It was designed for motion picture theatre sound systems in China, for TAD components. Dispersion is 80 degrees horizontal by 40 degrees vertical. Low cut-off is 600hz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 The other horn which looked like the best design of all is at this website http://www.acoustichorn.com/products/500/index.html A conical/radial horn. After reading about it, most standard horn designs seemed flawed. It was designed for motion picture theatre sound systems in China, for TAD components. Dispersion is 80 degrees horizontal by 40 degrees vertical. Low cut-off is 600hz I have emailed back and forth with Bill Wood. He is a super nice and helpful guy. These horns are on my list to hear. I've been trying to track down a pair to listen to so if you get them I'd love a demo : ) They are a little pricey but are top notch quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 By wall of drivers, I'm referring to an array of direct radiators that take up the same volume/footprint as the Jub LF (or two of them). That will offer you way more slam and LF extension - and since you don't at all care about polars, then you're not sacrificing anything. The size of your room is totatally irrelevant as far as the SPL is concerned....Just two cabs in a normal configuration would be good for about 138dB (and easily well over 130dB) when corner loaded - even at the listening position. You're not gonna be able to go 2-way and maintain that kind of SPL on the top-end....heck, you'll be limited to about 115dB before the HF starts sounding horrid....I still can't imagine listening that loud though. [:^)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 ".... By wall of drivers, I'm referring to an array of direct radiators that take up the same volume/footprint as the Jub LF (or two of them). That will offer you way more slam and LF extension - and since you don't at all care about polars, then you're not sacrificing anything. ...." Well, you are sacrificing lower distortion. However, if the fellow is listening at these very high levels, then there is apparently little prioritization of low distortion and the consequences of hearing damage. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I don't mean to speak for Marty, so Marty, if you read this, please don't let it offend you... I'm going to presume something here and that's not fair of me to do. Guys, my speculation is, Marty was wow'ed by the Jubilees total impact (volume, impact, low distortion, clarity...) He was riding a pretty high, high when he left my place. I'd bet lunch that if he had this wall of radiators, he'd still not be fully satisfied because they might not have the clarity he heard with the Jubilees. Or if they had the clarity, maybe not the impact, or if the impact, maybe not the scale... In other words, maybe not the entire package the Jubilee has to offer. I really think the bottom line is, he's been poisened by the shear capability of what the Jubilee can do and is hoping (hahaha) on finding a way to replace that same sound (impact, volume, low distortion) with something less expensive. Perhaps someone can, perhaps they can't. I do not pretend to know that answer. I suspect he's simply not willing to let his wallet face the reality his ears heard quite yet, as he's still thinking there has got to be a less expensive way to get the same sound, or perhaps, the same expense for an even better sound....(Marty, that's a nice way to say, you've inserted your head in the sand chanting "I know I can find it, I know I can find it, I KNOW I can find it" [6]) Marty, don't forget you're wrestling with not only PWK's last project, but his 50 (?) years of prior experience that went into it! Also, regarding blowing out ear drums... (and again, this is speculation). I think Marty and I might be a bit similar in that we don't really have any fatal attractions for hearing aids but, when we are not in the room with the system, like the idea of turning it up louder so we can hear it where we are instead of "necessarily" having to sit in a single chair the entire time. Also, while doing this out of area listening, want to enjoy the scale and still feel the impact through the foundation of the house. Put differently, if my system is cruising along at 154.384 db's and I'm outside mulching the garden, what is the real danger to my ears? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie1dog Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Richard: You nailed it pretty good. There's no way for anyone on the internet to fully understand( except you) the kind of sound I am seeking out of the Jubilee speaker. I already know that I need 4 of the bass bins in in my room, for just the type of dynamic slam Richard introduced me to....contrary to what anyone thinks about my room volume and SPL desires, because once again they have not been in my room with various speakers like I have. And I can bet that none of the people on here have years of playing with 18 piece Big Bands, Horn Bands, Orchestras as a trumpet player like I have. I have owned a SPL meter for years and am active in the car SPL/ SQ scene.. I've stuck my head in Alma Gates vehicle and experienced 170db before..I'm getting ready to be a judge at a Sound Quality event, so I have idea on what my goals are. For those who are concerned about my SPL requirements, 136 db peaks are just that, peaks, it's not the sustained levels that damage your hearing. It's for the occasional train wreck, atomic explosiion, cannon firing, that I want to realistically reproduce in my room. I always refer back to the saying, " Contentment is destroyed by comparison " You think your VW bug is the best of the 4 cars in your little town until a guy comes and takes you a ride in a 650HP Corvette. I read all the time someone says, " My XYZ brand subwoofer is awesome, it's a huge 12" model with 150 watts and throws 1/2 " That is their reference, we all seem to have a different reference. I said for years, " I've never had too much bass", then I experienced Alma Gates vehicle. I can only achieve this by constructing my own bass bin clones, financially. The wonderful thing about the internet is that for cheap guys like me who have not mastered the economic income system, can have access to the information on how to build things themselves. And if I can provide commercial venues with a great PA system for my A/V business, I'll be ordering the full Jubilee system from Klipsch, not copying it for my commercial gain. This system is just for my own house. The purpose for this particlar thread is to gather information on horns and drivers, as I will likely be making my own horns too. I would love to just get on the phone and order everything, but I cannot afford to do that at this time in my life, so I need to build everthing in this speaker system. Having 4 bass bins will give me the efficiency, slam, dynamics to make you blink on rim shots, as I have spent alot of time playing drums too, so I know what the sound is like sitting on the throne. I've only heard that punch from my friends really great system ( that has to be heard to be comprehended) and from being in the middle of the bands I've described above. I appreciate deeply Richard inviting me to his house and having me experience his system, as it has sent me on a new adventurous but affordable project. I hope one day to have him come to my house, and have a " Maxell tape " moment from my system[Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Well, you are sacrificing lower distortion. I don't think that's necessarily the case. Keele has shown that an array of vented cabs taking up the same volume will have more efficiency. Direct radiators also skirt the issue of throat overload (dunno where that happens on the Jub). From what I've read, it seems that polars are the biggest sacrifice....I'm kinda curious, however, how a Bessel array might stack up against a horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Mike, I understand your point. However, my take home message from the Keele article was more positive about lower distortion from the horn loaded cabinets (in general). Throat overload distortion was "dealt with" in the the Jubilee design by using the "rubber throat" (a rapid initial expansion immediately after the throat). -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 " By wall of drivers, I'm referring to an array of direct radiators thattake up the same volume/footprint as the Jub LF (or two of them). Thatwill offer you way more slam and LF extension - and since you don't atall care about polars, then you're not sacrificing anything. " might not need a wall of them... 43Hz-18kHz ± 3 dB, -10dB @ 26Hz kpt-942-4-cut-sheet-080326.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie1dog Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 Back to horns......[*-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 http://www.usspeaker.com/dds%20cfd-2-90x%20pro-1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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