Best DIY combination? also posted in Tech questions...

[MikeMilliken]

Can I get some help please? I want to start aquiring the parts to build a set of Cornscala's.

My questions are:

#1. 1 or 2 woofers per cabinet?

#2. What woofers are the best, one of Mr. Crites or some OEM Klipsch model, and I can easily drive a 4 ohm load with my AMP's

#3. Should I just do a Jubilee or a WMW/MTM instead? I want the BEST sound I can get and I have a BIG ROOM

#4. What has been discerned to be the BEST mid horn/driver combo.. I dont care how big it is, WAF means nothing here

#5.
What has been decided as the BEST Tweeter/ horn combo? I got a set of
Dynaudio T 330's....also some B&W, JBL has always has some nice
tweeters and horns, but I never see them mentioned here, is that
"heresy" in this forum? I have never seen or used Beyma or CTS. Most
familiar with Dynaudio, Peerless, Vifa, Scan Speak, Audax pro, ATC,
Volt, JBL, EV, and Peavey.

#5.5 Should I build a wood horn myself
for whatever is deemd to be the best driver? I have great wood working
skills and a load of wood working/paint & body tools and the skills
to use them effectively. I have built many speakers in the past. I used
to do a lot of custom/pro sound work in addition to my personal
projects.

#6 I am assuming the ALK crossovers would be the ones to ge, or maybe some else already has this all worked out?

#7
I have a KILLER 15" TC Sounds sub with twin 18" Passives, drivern by an
active crossover and a 4 kilowatt amp, so the lowest octave is not
necessary if I can gain something for it not being there. I also have
an RSW 15, however I'd like these speakers to be able to do it all by
themselves if possible.

#8 I'd like to thank any/all
respondents in advance. I will take photos and document everything I
do, this project will come to pass. You wont be wasting your time
responding to this. I am in Central Florida (by Disney) and any members
that would like to be involved are invited to take part in any phase of
the process.

#9 I have looked through the forums to see if the
BEST diy speaker has ever been resolved, but I have not found and
consensus on it. Maybe this needs to be 3/4 seperate threads?

Respectfully,

Mike Milliken

[Groomlakearea51]

I dont care how big it is, WAF means nothing here

Now that's funny!!!!!

PS Mike, I also responded to your email ref: coming down and listening to the various Heritage before you cut wood, etc.

[MikeMilliken]

I dont care how big it is, WAF means nothing here

Now that's funny!!!!!

PS Mike, I also responded to your email ref: coming down and listening to the various Heritage before you cut wood, etc.

Another fellow board member (Clermont Cop) called a guy named Marshall ( I think) while he was here picking up an acadamy center he got from me.I got a suspicion that might be you? In Okeechobee? Thanks for responding!

[PrestonTom]

"...

#3. Should I just do a Jubilee or a WMW/MTM instead? I want the BEST sound I can get and I have a BIG ROOM

...."

The suggestions/conversation will not be very coherent since you have posted this same question in two different places.

That said, you probably first need to answer and flesh out the details in the question 3. The answers to the other questions are a function of the results from question/answer #3.

[MikeMilliken]

I double posted only because I was unsure where this SHOULD go. I am new to the forum, so plaese forgive my lack of knowledge on this matter.....

I have also decided to focus on a single or double 15' Cornscala "type" speaker to avoid any possible infringement on Klipsch. I in no way intend on doing anything that Klipsch would not like. I do think a bigger midrange would/could be of value in sound quality and I wish to pursue suggestion's in that direction. I also believe that there has to be a better/best tweeter out there somewhere.

If this forum has already discovered a "best" tweeter, what is it?

If a moderator can move this to the "right place" please do it.

Thank you all,

Mike Milliken

[MikeMilliken]

Someone had asked earlier if this was a money no object... and it is pretty much so. To a point, by this I mean $10,000.00 on parts is not out of the question. I have a pile of good clean amplifiers and a decent/excellent active crossover, and high quality source material. I even have an old Audio Control SA 3020, 1/3 octave analyzer. What I don't have is an anoeic (SIC) chamber. But I would like to add one thing, on speakers that I have EQ'd to measure absolutely fla, I never liked them that way. I dont know if I have flawed hearing or maybe I don't interpret the same as everyone else?

I have always liked a little upward gain in the 5/6K region, and not a sharp slope, a 2 octave contour and a pretty goof lift in response up at 12/13K on out to the end of my audibility. I prefer a little extra bass too. I learned all this after lots of time EQ'ing systems and playing with my old parametric equalizer to see what I liked after EQ'ing for flat response. I do NOT like flat response and I am willing to bet that many others do not as well.

[Arky]

WAF means nothing here

Yeah, a mans man. Several here have built the cornscala. I own a pair Bob Crites built & love them.

Have you looked at the jubscala?They sound better than cornscalas & you get to buy the horns from Klipsch.[]

[Arky]

btw, i'd say this is the best location for your thread.

[MikeMilliken]

Arky,

I am intrigued by the Jubilees, but I think thats infringing on Klipsch. If someone from Klipsch tells me its OK, then I's be all over it. My fascination with them is that insane (IMO) gain they have on the woofers. If there is a more effiecient speaker that can match their clarity, bandwidth, and ultimate SPL, I would LOVE to hear about it.

Thats got to be one of the best small (relative term) bass horns that I have ever seen

I got no idea what a Jubscala is............Is it safe to assume its a Jubilee bass bin, with a Lascala top?

Is Klipsch OK with "cloning" their bass bin? Most corporations are very protective of such things.........If Klipsch says I can build one, I will.

I dont want to get in a patent infringement suit with anyone................ I hate attorneys for the most part.

[Guest David H]

Can I get some help please? I want to start aquiring the parts to build a set of Cornscala's.

My questions are:

#1. 1 or 2 woofers per cabinet?

#2. What woofers are the best, one of Mr. Crites or some OEM Klipsch model, and I can easily drive a 4 ohm load with my AMP's

#3. Should I just do a Jubilee or a WMW/MTM instead? I want the BEST sound I can get and I have a BIG ROOM

#4. What has been discerned to be the BEST mid horn/driver combo.. I dont care how big it is, WAF means nothing here

#5. What has been decided as the BEST Tweeter/ horn combo? I got a set of Dynaudio T 330's....also some B&W, JBL has always has some nice tweeters and horns, but I never see them mentioned here, is that "heresy" in this forum? I have never seen or used Beyma or CTS. Most familiar with Dynaudio, Peerless, Vifa, Scan Speak, Audax pro, ATC, Volt, JBL, EV, and Peavey.

#5.5 Should I build a wood horn myself for whatever is deemd to be the best driver? I have great wood working skills and a load of wood working/paint & body tools and the skills to use them effectively. I have built many speakers in the past. I used to do a lot of custom/pro sound work in addition to my personal projects.

#6 I am assuming the ALK crossovers would be the ones to ge, or maybe some else already has this all worked out?

#7 I have a KILLER 15" TC Sounds sub with twin 18" Passives, drivern by an active crossover and a 4 kilowatt amp, so the lowest octave is not necessary if I can gain something for it not being there. I also have an RSW 15, however I'd like these speakers to be able to do it all by themselves if possible.

#8 I'd like to thank any/all respondents in advance. I will take photos and document everything I do, this project will come to pass. You wont be wasting your time responding to this. I am in Central Florida (by Disney) and any members that would like to be involved are invited to take part in any phase of the process.

#9 I have looked through the forums to see if the BEST diy speaker has ever been resolved, but I have not found and consensus on it. Maybe this needs to be 3/4 seperate threads?

Respectfully,

Mike Milliken

If room size and WAF are not a constriction I would go for the Cornscala DBB with 2 of Crites cast frame woofers. Here is a link to JW's thread. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/58314.aspx

I did a build thead and posted instructions on a 2 inch midrange designed by JWCullison, that would be perfect for this project. I have a pair for sale if interested, or by all means build a pair. Here is the link http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/112691.aspx If you read through the thread, you will see how the drivers tested.

For crossovers, I like the ALK, I think Al has mods for the DBB as well.

A popular tweeter is the Beyma CP-25, I am using the Crites tweeters on my Lilscala's and am very pleased.

[Arky]

I got no idea what a Jubscala is

Do a search for jubscala. It is a lascala bass bin with either a 510 or the big 402 horn on top. You would need to contact Roy Delgado, the Klipsch horn engineer, for purchasing instructions. He can also address your infringement concerns. Personally, since you are discussing it, I would say you are operating on the up & up.

Have you heard the jubs? Incredible.

[Coytee]

Someone had asked earlier if this was a money no object... and it is pretty much so. To a point, by this I mean $10,000.00 on parts is not out of the question

Then why not spend 'about' $7,000 and simply buy a pair of factory Jubilees and have them delivered to your doorstep!!

[<)]

[bhendrix]

Then why not spend 'about' $7,000 and simply buy a pair of factory Jubilees and have them delivered to your doorstep!!

I absolutely agree with Richard!!! Don't mess with guessing if you built it right. Spend the bucks and get the real deal. If you want to do woodwork, then veneer the bass bin and build a "K-horn-type" top hat for the 402 like this:

[Guest David H]

Then why not spend 'about' $7,000 and simply buy a pair of factory Jubilees and have them delivered to your doorstep!!

That will take all the fun out of it, If he orders Jubs, how is he going to experiance the 2-3 week lower back pain from lugging the bins around. And what about those index finger burns from Ironing on the veneer. I almost forgot the splinters and the sawdust on everything I own.

When you buid yourself, you really get the feeling of satisfaction. I know I felt it for weeks.

Come to think of it, How do I get some Jubs?

[colterphoto1]

Re your other thread (I'll answer here to keep it all in one). Klipsch does not make the MTM any longer. I think you're confused with the model numbers

MTM = tweeter pack of 5 x piezos

MSM = K250 horn powered by 4x K55

MSSM = K41 10" woofer into straight horn Mid bass

MWM= dual 15" folded horn cabinet

or MWM-S single 15" size folded horns (usually used for portablity and double stacked.

Together it's called the MCM 1900

M

[Deang]

If money is not really a problem here then why not just order some Jubilees from Klipsch and call it a day. With $10K, you'd have money left over for a pair of TADs and some killer networks.

[MikeMilliken]

Re your other thread (I'll answer here to keep it all in one). Klipsch does not make the MTM any longer. I think you're confused with the model numbers

MTM = tweeter pack of 5 x piezos

MSM = K250 horn powered by 4x K55

MSSM = K41 10" woofer into straight horn Mid bass

MWM= dual 15" folded horn cabinet

or MWM-S single 15" size folded horns (usually used for portablity and double stacked.

Together it's called the MCM 1900

M

Mr Colter,

We are speaking a different language here.........

You are apeaking of Klipsch model designations.. I am talking about speaker building.

IE: WMTMW = woofer/mid/tweeter/mid/woofer ......a set up useful for center channels and reference speakers because of its superior polar response capabilities

a 2 way (2.5 possibly) version of the above would be MTM, and would be used "like a monitor" on top of a bass cab or maybe with a sub.

Mid/tweet/mid or you could do a full range like this and call it a WTW.

There was a guy who took this old design style and basically put his name on it, though he had nothing to do with its creation.... Its not Dickinson... Hes a talented speaker designer and he's still withj us today. Used to be a frequent contributor to Speaker Builder.. I got CRS bad and cannot recall his name at the moment..

I was referring to the stacked driver cabs used in pro sound, where you have a dedicated mid cab, usually a mid bass cab, a woofers cab, usually also a dedicated tweeter array (but please, please, NOT MOTOROLA HISSERS!)

I spose everyone doesnt "stack " them like I do and thats likely responsible for the confusion. When I talk/write, I often wrongly assume we are all starting from the same place. Its an idiosynchrosy I should probably work on...... Irritates my wife pretty constantly, but I never understand WTF she is talking about.

I do not know a lot about Klipschs designations, so I call things with names I am familiar with and hope peiople understand what I am trying to convey.. I will eventually learn Klipsch-speak, but right now I'm a retard in that area.

[Islander]

.

[Islander]

If money is not really a problem here then why not just order some Jubilees from Klipsch and call it a day. With $10K, you'd have money left over for a pair of TADs and some killer networks.

That sounds like good advice. One forum member built himself a pair of Jubilees which turned out really well, but with all the work it took, he said he'd just buy a pair next time.

With horns, the dimensions are way more critical than with a normal box speaker, so it's easy to work carefully and still wind up with a bass bin that's just a bit off and doesn't quite perform to spec. As well, factory units will have much better resale value than home-built speakers.

Finally, with Jubilees you get the benefit of Roy Delgado's factory-tested crossover settings. The developments are still going on. Last September, he released a new program of settings which I was able to incorporate with my JubScalas. You can guess or experiment with your settings or try to get a homebuilt speaker to sound the way you want, but using factory-tested settings lets you get to listening to music much sooner.

[MikeMilliken]

Sorry, again I was a bit unclear....

Seems to be a habit of mine.

This will better explain it.. take the guy on the forum that has the 2 bass bins, what appears to be a large mid or mid bass bin, and BIG unfolded midrange horn, with a tweeter sitting on top. it looks to be either theater or commercial stuff. I cant see so good, so i dont know if its flying gear or intended to be.

But anyway in my terminolgoy, I'd call his array a WWMMT, IE woff/woof/ mid (mid bass?)/mid/tweet

hope that clears up any confusion I was responsible for.

Mike Milliken