greg928gts Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I'm jumping the gun a bit here, but Gothover is working on new wooden horns for the Cornwall, I assume with a tractrix flare. I think his horns will take the K55 driver, which will really keep the cost down for the conversion. I'm sure the quality of his work will be up to his normal high levels. I'm anxious to see what he comes up with. What I'm wondering, does anyone think it would be a worthwhile project for me to develop a 2" throat horn for the Cornwall? It would be a kit with a template for cutting the motorboard and all necessary pieces and hardware for a reasonably simple installation. My thought was that if someone could drop in a 2" throat horn with the BMS drivers and Beyma tweeters, and the ALK type B crossovers, it would be a heck of a Cornscala without having to build a new cabinet. As is typical with most of the ideas I come up with, it's expensive! But I'm just thinking of what new Cornwall III's cost and how a modded pair of old Cornwalls would compare. Frankly I think they would kick butt. I'm going to try this sometime in my living room, by bringing my Cornwalls in and placing them in front of my Khorns (with the V-Trac horns) and wire up the bass drivers of the Cornwalls instead of the Khorn. I know the crossover point will be a bit lower, but still, it will give me an idea of what Cornwall bass sounds like with the V-Trac top end. I bet it would be smoooothe and so open in the midrange. A far cry from the little K600 horn and as much of a difference over the K400/K55 as I found with the Khorns. If this test works out well, I might make some horns for my Cornwalls and get them into a smaller room. My living room is just not that great for Cornwall bass for some reason. There's a lot of talk lately about Cornscalas, and this would be a simple (although pricey) way of getting even better sound than your typical Cornscala, especially for those people who don't have the shop or skills to build cabinets. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Greg, great idea but the trouble with Cornwalls is the cabinet depth. The K55 magnet is already butted up again the backboard. A larger midrange would not work unless the taper on the wooden horn was shorter than the original K-600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Greg, great idea but the trouble with Cornwalls is the cabinet depth. The K55 magnet is already butted up again the backboard. A larger midrange would not work unless the taper on the wooden horn was shorter than the original K-600. Actually, a tractrix curve is not as deep as the K600 that's in there. 2" throat horn with an Fc of 400Hz is about 6.75" deep and the mouth is about 9" square or can also be rectangular. I can make it fit just fine. The proportion of sound from the driver to horn would lean much more toward the driver than the horn with this larger format. You would hear the high quality 2" BMS 4592ND-MID MUCH more than you would the horn. If any of you has a K600 horn out of the Cornwall, try talking through it! With a 600hz crossover point, that open up a lot of options for midrange drivers not available for the Khorn with a 400Hz crossover point. I could even see this being able to go two-way, in which case I would produce a hybrid curve design resulting in a larger mouth horn and use the Beyma CP750/ND. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 " 2" throat horn with an Fc of 400Hz is " Cornwalls mid horn are 600hz older model and 700hz newer model. Is the intent to convert the 3 way cornwall or cornscala to 2 way? If we are still talking about 3 way, whats the goal for the tweeter? Due to the present spacing, may need to think about a new motorboard if we are talking new mid horn and new tweeter. The output of a 2" exit mid driver with matching 1" exit tweeter driver usally has dual 15" 's in Klipsch's pro line. Think kpt-904 Becuase of the higher crossover point in the Cornwall (older models 600hz, newer ones 700hz) or Cornscala, it opens the door for other drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_eric_s Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Consider me interested. The kit idea sounds like something I could accomplish even with my (lack of) woodworking skills. The stock Cornwall mid just seems like it could be better. Please let us know how the experiment goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Gothover is working on new wooden horns for the Cornwall, I assume with a tractrix flare. I think his horns will take the K55 driver, which will really keep the cost down for the conversion. Yes this is going to be a Tractrix flair, designed to accomodate the K-55. No Crossover changes will be necessary, but crossover upgrades are highly reccomended to get the most out of the upgrade. My plan is to include a cutting template and instructions with the horns. I plan on having a prototype ready for testing in the next few weeks. I already have some donor Cornwalls ready for the first pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Greg, Sounds like a most interesting and fun project, maybe enough fun to make it worth it to you. I would imagine, though, that the CW upgrade market would be a considerably smaller niche than the Khorn upgrade market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliss53 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Bob Crites has used a pyle pro 2380p (discontinued) and a ph800 in his conscalas. Are you thinking of a similar shape and size? I would be interested. I am on the fence as to refinishing my lascalas or taking the parts and trying a cornscala. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 " 2" throat horn with an Fc of 400Hz is " Cornwalls mid horn are 600hz older model and 700hz newer model. Is the intent to convert the 3 way cornwall or cornscala to 2 way? If we are still talking about 3 way, whats the goal for the tweeter? Due to the present spacing, may need to think about a new motorboard if we are talking new mid horn and new tweeter. The output of a 2" exit mid driver with matching 1" exit tweeter driver usally has dual 15" 's in Klipsch's pro line. Think kpt-904 Becuase of the higher crossover point in the Cornwall (older models 600hz, newer ones 700hz) or Cornscala, it opens the door for other drivers. I don't know, I think staying 3-way is going to be the first step. I don't have enough experience with a driver like the Beyma CP750/ND and how that covers the high frequencies in a two-way setup, or what kind of horn it takes to cover 600Hz to 20Khz. I think I'm going to do the three way in my own Cornwalls and see how it works out. I agree that the output of a 2" driver and 1" tweeter matches up well with dual 15's. If I were building a Cornscala, I think I would go that way. But I also think that the larger format horns will offer a huge improvement to the single 15 Cornwall. The mids and tweets would be barely working to keep up with the woofers. Imagine the clean, wide open sound that would come from that. I'm excited about trying it. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Consider me interested. The kit idea sounds like something I could accomplish even with my (lack of) woodworking skills. The stock Cornwall mid just seems like it could be better. Please let us know how the experiment goes. Of all the components in the Cornwall, the mid has got to be the weak link. I want to make a kit that is easy for anyone to install. I would have a template that you would use to mark the front of the motorboard for the cutout, and then you, or someone else you trust more, would cut out the hole for the kit, probably with a jigsaw (or sabre saw some people call it). The new motorboard will have a flange built around all four sides so it just drops down into the hole that was cut out, and screws and seals against the existing motorboard. I would make it so the new mid horn, tweeter and crossover all were on that board. This would work for Cornwall I, Cornwall II, or Cornwall III's equally as well. It would be a neat little package, and one that I think will make a huge impact on the sound of the Cornwall. It was pointed out to me that a lot of people won't want to cut their speakers because they wouldn't be able to reverse the mod and put the original drivers back in. I will offer a motorboard that fits into the flanges of the kit that has cutouts for the original drivers so the mod can be reversed. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Greg, Sounds like a most interesting and fun project, maybe enough fun to make it worth it to you. I would imagine, though, that the CW upgrade market would be a considerably smaller niche than the Khorn upgrade market. I agree, especially with the cost of the whole package. I wonder how the cost would compare to new Cornwall III's though? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Bob Crites has used a pyle pro 2380p (discontinued) and a ph800 in his conscalas. Are you thinking of a similar shape and size? I would be interested. I am on the fence as to refinishing my lascalas or taking the parts and trying a cornscala. I'm thinking tractrix flare, but I don't know about the shape of the mouth yet. A square shaped mouth would be about 9", but that may not fit, I haven't even looked at my Cornwalls and taken any measurements to see what will fit. I think it would if the tweeter were off to the side. This would leave room for the crossover to be mounted on the new motorboard too, under the tweeter. I like the idea of a square mouth, it would be closer to a round tractrix horn than rectangle. I could maybe even make all four sides curved. If I were building Cornscalas, I would not use any original Klipsch parts. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 If I were building Cornscalas, I would not use any original Klipsch parts. Good Idea, restore those LaScala'sThe Grill is also a consideration, as the grill will have to be cut and recoverd or replaced. Unless its a Cornwall decorator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 If I were building Cornscalas, I would not use any original Klipsch parts. Good Idea, restore those LaScala'sThe Grill is also a consideration, as the grill will have to be cut and recoverd or replaced. Unless its a Cornwall decorator. I thought Cornwall grills were stuck on with velcro? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I'm jumping the gun a bit here, but Gothover is working on new wooden horns for the Cornwall, I assume with a tractrix flare. I think his horns will take the K55 driver, which will really keep the cost down for the conversion. I'm sure the quality of his work will be up to his normal high levels. I'm anxious to see what he comes up with. What I'm wondering, does anyone think it would be a worthwhile project for me to develop a 2" throat horn for the Cornwall? It would be a kit with a template for cutting the motorboard and all necessary pieces and hardware for a reasonably simple installation. My thought was that if someone could drop in a 2" throat horn with the BMS drivers and Beyma tweeters, and the ALK type B crossovers, it would be a heck of a Cornscala without having to build a new cabinet. As is typical with most of the ideas I come up with, it's expensive! But I'm just thinking of what new Cornwall III's cost and how a modded pair of old Cornwalls would compare. Frankly I think they would kick butt. I'm going to try this sometime in my living room, by bringing my Cornwalls in and placing them in front of my Khorns (with the V-Trac horns) and wire up the bass drivers of the Cornwalls instead of the Khorn. I know the crossover point will be a bit lower, but still, it will give me an idea of what Cornwall bass sounds like with the V-Trac top end. I bet it would be smoooothe and so open in the midrange. A far cry from the little K600 horn and as much of a difference over the K400/K55 as I found with the Khorns. If this test works out well, I might make some horns for my Cornwalls and get them into a smaller room. My living room is just not that great for Cornwall bass for some reason. There's a lot of talk lately about Cornscalas, and this would be a simple (although pricey) way of getting even better sound than your typical Cornscala, especially for those people who don't have the shop or skills to build cabinets. Greg Like these, sorta? Been wanting to do something like that for years... Chornus II's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 If I were building Cornscalas, I would not use any original Klipsch parts. Good Idea, restore those LaScala'sThe Grill is also a consideration, as the grill will have to be cut and recoverd or replaced. Unless its a Cornwall decorator. I thought Cornwall grills were stuck on with velcro? Greg This is true, but they have horn specific cutouts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Early Cornwalls just have the fabric wrapped around the motorboard with no grill at all. I don't know when the use of a removable grill started on the Cornwalls. Probably around mid-seventys. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 The safe thing would be to just make a new motorboard and store the old one in the closet, until you decide you really don't need it anymore. If you made a new one, you might try moving the woofer up a little like they did in the CWIII. I think that helped to get rid of some of the midbass hump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 If I were building Cornscalas, I would not use any original Klipsch parts. Good Idea, restore those LaScala'sThe Grill is also a consideration, as the grill will have to be cut and recoverd or replaced. Unless its a Cornwall decorator. I thought Cornwall grills were stuck on with velcro? Greg This is true, but they have horn specific cutouts Crap, you're right. We need a really smart solution for this. Got one? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 The safe thing would be to just make a new motorboard and stor the old one in the closet, until you decideyou really don't need it anymore. If you made a new one, you might try moving the woofer up a little like they did in the CWIII. I think that helped to get rid of some of the midbass hump. It would be very difficult to remove the motorboard, I think they are glued in. They certainly are in the Cornwall II's. Shipping costs would go up too. The kit I'm thinking of would be fairly compact. And it would have been easy to install too, but now Gothover has gone and made the whole idea very difficult with this grill issue. [] Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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