Sky Hits Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Hello again, Klipsch-philes, I'm back with a conundrum: The Technics SL 1200 MKII which I purchased on ebay in 2003 came with a problem that I didn't detect on my own. Something is wrong with the tone arm. There is an excessive amount of outward and upward torque. The only reason that I've never thought much about it, is that I have a decently heavy headshell. It wasn't until recently that I realized I may want to investigate this issue. So I'm embarassed to say that my Grado Gold cart and precious beloved vinyl have probably been taking the brunt of this issue and for quite a few years. (The stylus has been replaced once in that time.) I've spoken with two different shops that do repairs and the story is basically the same: The tone arm assembly needs to be replaced, the assembly costs between $70 and $90 plus two to two and a half hours of repair ($60 - $65 an hour). So we're looking at about a $200 repair. On a TT I must have purchased for just over $300. My dilemma: Fix it or save for an upgrade? Bear in mind, I have a wedding (!) I'm saving for over the next year. I could justify repairing this one, or saving for a better TT, but not much better. Perhaps a Rega P3, or a used Thorens. At these $ levels does it make the most sense just to get the repairs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Check with: http://www.kabusa.com and see what they suggest. They are Technics TT specialists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Do what I just did. Buy a Thorens TD 160, 165, 145, or similar for about $100. They're all over the place. Slap on a $54 Shure M97xe (Amazon.com) and for under $160 you have a setup that, to me, blows away the Technics. You could even use the Grado if it's still in decent shape. You have to realize I'm not a Technics fan so IMO, just about any Thorens table sounds more musical to my ears. Or: Buy another 1200 and use one for parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Slap on a $54 Shure M97xeWill a Thorens TD 115 also accept this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Slap on a $54 Shure M97xeWill a Thorens TD 115 also accept this? Which ARM does it have? I would guess yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Hits Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 I'll just jump in and say thanks for the responses so far. I'm in touch with kab about the particular problem, and am also curious to look into Gary's Thorens recommendations as I've been very curious about Thorens tables. But Gary: The Shure M97xe over the Grado gold? I haven't checked out the Shure before. Do you know them both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I'll just jump in and say thanks for the responses so far. I'm in touch with kab about the particular problem, and am also curious to look into Gary's Thorens recommendations as I've been very curious about Thorens tables. But Gary: The Shure M97xe over the Grado gold? I haven't checked out the Shure before. Do you know them both? No. I just wasn't sure your gold was in working order. Keep the Grado! I had a Black and Green ages ago. Not as nice as the Gold but they sounded great for the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Hits Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Thanks again. So where should I keep an eye out for Thorens tables? Craigslist? Audiogon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Something is wrong with the tone arm. There is an excessive amount of outward and upward torque ... my Grado Gold cart and precious beloved vinyl have probably been taking the brunt of this issue and for quite a few years. (The stylus has been replaced once in that time.) If you're still weighing keeping the table -- why do you think there is excessive outward and upward torque? Does the arm scoot outward across the grooves? What do you mean by XS upward torque?Regardless, if you're keeping it but have doubts about your cart, consider replacing it or the needle before it does any (further) serious record wear: 1) look and 2) listen carefully -- turn it upside down or use a small mirror to make sure the cantilever (long thin tube with the stylus on the end) runs exactly down the middle, and listen to see if record scratch seems exaggerated to your ear, and especially if it increases on each playing. If either seems even slightly true, I'd err in the direction of replacing the needle or the cartridge. Do you recall why the needle was replaced before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Audiogon for sure but you live in Chicago so keep an eye on the local classified ads and craigslist. Something should turn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Hits Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Hi Larry, When I first got the table and the cart, a good friend calibrated it for me, and pointed out that there was some unusual outward force. He was not very conversant with technics tables though, so he utilized a fairly heavy weight setting (3 - 3.5) and told me to get it checked out by someone knowledgable. My mistake was never taking his advice. Recently I borrowed a second Grado Gold from a good friend so that I could have two for a DJ gig. My friend's Grado Gold is attached to a much lighter headshell than my own and to this moment I can't use his headshell and cart with my turntable. The tone arm won't balance vertically (it mostly wants to angle toward the ceiling unless I really 'screw up' the counter weight, and then it falls with a thud on the record or mat) and there is a massive amount of force pushing the tonearm outward (past the outside rim of the record) as well. It certainly doesn't track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Hits Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 I heard back from Kevin at KAB. He believes that the only explanation is that I have the aux weight screwed into the back of the tone arm that is only used for heavy carts. I won't be able to check for sure until I get home in a few hours. That would be a simple (and inexpensive) solution. This won't, of course, stop me from continuing to eye upgrade possibilities. [] Thanks to all of you for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 It certainly doesn't track. Wow, and I think you're being charitable. Dunno exactly what all's wrong with it, but I'd get far, far away from that arm. Your friend may be lucky you couldn't use his cart. Anyway, best wishes on replacements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 A TD 160 for $100? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesV Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 A TD 160 for $100? Yep, I picked up my last year here on the forum for $125 James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesV Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 SH, I never hear the 1200 MKII before but I do love my Thorens 160. It is good to hear that it might be something that you can fix and everything will be good again. Like always upgrades do come around, so I will also keep an eye out for you and see whats around. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Hits Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Thanks James, I hope all is well with you. Unfortunately the simple solution did not exist: there is definitely no auxilary counter-weight throwing things out of wack. It's time for me to suck it up and take the table in to someone who knows better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 A TD 160 for $100? You bet OT. I bought one on ebay a few years ago for $112 in really nice shape, then sold it to Chuck/Colonial Hoo. Not sure who owns it now...maybe James? I believe it to be one of the better TT bargains out there these days. IMO, they sound quite a bit better than the DD Technics or the lower-end ProJects or Music Halls. I had an MMF 5 and the 160 sounded way better to me. The 145 I bought from Mr. Sportster recently is beginning to sound pretty good as the new cart breaks in. I might try and replace those skinny I/Cs although I was unsuccessful in doing so with the 160 due to a hum I couldn't get rid of. From what I've read, the 145 is just a 160 that's semi-automatic. The tonearm lifts at the end of the record. On this particular table it actually works! I must say however that owning a high-end table (like my Basis) and a fairly low-end table (like the 145), gives me a much better understanding of why high-end tables cost so much more. There really is no comparison. I don't mean to sound like a TT snob, just giving an honest opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesV Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Not sure who owns it now...maybe James? Here is the post of the one that I purchased almost a year ago. Like I stated I have since added the Shure cart and I am happy with it. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 $125 or $112, it's still more than $100.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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