Kriton Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Ok ya'll, while I have been waiting for the right box to send my last meter to Canada - I ahve been doing a lot of listening. I have had my new BlueBerry/MKIII's (with new KT88SC output tubes) - on a pair of line arrays that I have set up in my main listening area. They have been lush and surprising, but these are not the most efficient speakers in the world, mind you - they are "a 2-way,14-driver line source vented enclosure with 8 flared ports aroundback...featur[ing] 6 customized BG Neo 8 midrange/tweeter panels and 8custom 6.5” XBL² woofers per speaker"(From a review). My point is, in ultralinear mode, my MKIII's appear to have enough juice to push these things, and to do it well. However, when I hooked up the RF-7's, I was expecting - well more...They were just pretty lifeless with this set-up, I was rather disappointed. Is this becasue of the impedance demands of RF-7's? Are these things just not really built to mate well with relatively low power (60 watt) tube amps? With the understnading that I ahve not yet mated these with my beloved Cornwalls, I was a tad put off by the lack of vigor of the RF's. I am starting to think that I have not yet even really broken these 7's in right, the bass was rather anemic and just didn't have that sparkle I am used to.. Any suggestions? B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I run 500 watt Crown amps to the lows on my RF-7's. [Y] 30 watts to the highs from a vintage H/K 430. [Y] The 7's need lotsa power in the bass dept......then you'll hear what the 7's have to offer. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Right now I have my RF-7s crossed at 60 Hz but I have a RSW-12 up front to cover the lower end--I wonder if I get a 2/3 channel Amp up front if I would be able to get rid of it and let my Rear RSW-15 pound out the LF bass and run my Mains lower (40 Hz). [^o)] Btw, Kriton I didn't mean to thread jack and am curious what you still think of Deang's crossovers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I cross my 7's over at 60hz as well. Why get rid of the RSW-12? Two subs and some serious juice to the 7's and you'll be in heaven. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn5 Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 It does seem you need lots of power for the RF-7 bass. I've run mine with 100w consumer receiver, added a QSC amp and noticed a BIG improvement in sound. I've recently replaced the QSC with an Outlaw Audio 7500 (200w/ch) and they also drive the 7's really well. I haven't done an A/B comparison yet, though. I'm not familiar with your tube amp, but does it have different connections for 4 ohm and 8 ohm connections? If so, I'd try 4 ohm connections to the bass and power the treble with 8 ohm connections and see if that helps. RF-7's are beasts - but you gotta feed the beast. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Feed the beasts.....[] Unless of course your musical tastes are on the more delicate side, which I doubt you are by your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriton Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 Don't get me wrong - My RF-7's run like bears whenconnected to my Sunfire combo, it seems to have enough juice to kick them out - but I guess I was expecting to hear some nice differences in the 7's with tube amplification - but I tend to think unless I have a hell of alot of headroom, I am not going to be able to use the 7's with my tubes. I just think it is interesting to note that the modern speakers apparently require modern SS amplification to sing. Now as to Dean G's tweak - the crossovers immediately tamed a harshness that I heard from the 7's - it was noticeable and immediate. I have never looked back, I think it was the best upgrade I could have made to those speakers. Dean is a piece of work, and he knows his S*&% - between he and Craig, those are two boys I could (at different times of course) buy much beer and pick their brains for days. Just my 2c. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I totally agree with the pleasant sound from the upgrades. I've never heard the 7's with tube amplification, that's why I find your comments so interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I have heard the stock RF-7 of Mike Whell sound real nice with BB and VRDs in an inforaml test. Mark III is a real nice amp but not a VRD. I used a NOS Valved Scott 208 with my Belles which is maybe a little less bass weight than a Mark III. A Belle is a very different load than a RF-7. Trying the 4 ohm taps on the Mark III is a good idea. When I got the VRD bass attack and decay was a revelation. I am personally NOT into bi amping but if you listen quite loud it maybe a good experiment to go highpower SS on the low end with the Mark IIIs on the high. => A perplexing position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I've been putting off the x-over mod for years now. However, I discovered that running significant power to the bass and low power to the high frequencies has given me the best sound to date. Bass is much more prominent and the highs are not harsh or bright. Room treatments are very helpful as well. If I had a low powered tube amp at my disposal....I would definitely put it on the highs........something I have not yet been able to experiment with. [:^)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon20x Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Now as to Dean G's tweak - the crossovers immediately tamed a harshness that I heard from the 7's - it was noticeable and immediate. I have never looked back, I think it was the best upgrade I could have made to those speakers. Dean is a piece of work, and he knows his S*&% - between he and Craig, those are two boys I could (at different times of course) buy much beer and pick their brains for days. Just my 2c. B That is exactly how I would describe the improvement, I only have my RC7 done but the RF 7 should follow soon. To me that is the main improvement with the RC 64/ RF 83 series I did a test with a stock RC 7, a Dean X-over upgraded RC 7 and an RC 64 side by side. I noticed the improvement between the 2 RC 7 but I could hardly hear a difference in the high between the Dean RC 7 and the RC 64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 and pick their brains for days It only took me 5 minutes.... [6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 ...I noticed the improvement between the 2 RC 7 but I could hardly hear a difference in the high between the Dean RC 7 and the RC 64 Interesting... I've heard the RF-83/RC-64 combo on several occasions and I thought my stock RF-7s/RC-7 sounded better and is the reason I didn't feel the need to upgrade speakers. I guess it's a preference thing. Insofar as Deans upgrades are concerned, I listen to alot of multi-channel material and I have only heard harshness on a few things and is the reason I haven't gone that route. Now that my speakers are out of warranty, I may consider it again. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 and pick their brains for days It only took me 5 minutes.... That was funny! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 ...I noticed the improvement between the 2 RC 7 but I could hardly hear a difference in the high between the Dean RC 7 and the RC 64 Interesting... I've heard the RF-83/RC-64 combo on several occasions and I thought my stock RF-7s/RC-7 sounded better and is the reason I didn't feel the need to upgrade speakers. I guess it's a preference thing. Insofar as Deans upgrades are concerned, I listen to alot of multi-channel material and I have only heard harshness on a few things and is the reason I haven't gone that route. Now that my speakers are out of warranty, I may consider it again. ;-) My conclusion exactly,and I owned 83/64 combo at the same time as 7's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon20x Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 ...I noticed the improvement between the 2 RC 7 but I could hardly hear a difference in the high between the Dean RC 7 and the RC 64 Interesting... I've heard the RF-83/RC-64 combo on several occasions and I thought my stock RF-7s/RC-7 sounded better and is the reason I didn't feel the need to upgrade speakers. I guess it's a preference thing. Well it might be a matter of preference but unless you have both systems hooked up in the same room to the same equipment and at least one other person listening to it, it is like comparing apples and oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriton Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 As to the DeanG mod, now I am hijacking my own thread - I was lucky enough to have the stock crossover on the right and I put the DG crossover in the left and went back and forth - I play a lot of classical, wife loves Baroque, a lot of opera and so on - you get soem string stuff going ape, and you can hear the harshness, on my system of course, like night and day - the comparison between the right and left was very noticeable - and so I kept the DG's, because I preferred the sound substantially over stock - they were far less "fatiguing" I think thepolitically correct term is - whatever, don't really know that from jack, but they sounded better to me - Never heard newer reference, never needed to - this is with my system, my room, my material and *my* ears - your mileage may vary. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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