Nailbender Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I know it's subjective, but I'm trying to talk myself into buying a SET amp to replace my Dynaco 60wpc tube amp. I'm looking for more musical detail. My current amp sings but only at higher volumes. Thanks in advance for your advice and wisdom, Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 If you have the right Klipsch or Klipsch-like components they will be OK. It won't get as loud as the 60 watt deal but probably sound better, especially at lower volumes. The ALK constant impedance Universal Type A would be a worthwhile upgrade also. If your cornscalas have other, less efficient components you're on your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 depends what you mean by "DRIVE MY CORNSCALAS" will it deliver some really nice sound at a reasonable sound level ??? " YES" , will it rattle the windows with bass ??? " NO" they simply will not have the power to really get the woofer moving hard / fast enough to pound the bass, but they will play at what i consider a nice level ( between 80 and 95 db at 10 feet) above that you can count on introducing distortion..............my suggestion would be to either borrow a decent set amp or buy them but hold off selling the dynaco's till you see if you can live with the reduced levels it is almost a given that you will be rewarded with more mid / higher end detail, soundstage will improve, air around the instruments and vocals will be better defined the question to ask yourself is what do you expect from your system ??????? one nice thing about push pull amps is they offer some very decent detail with the power to push the speaks when the need / feeling arises..........dynaco mark 3's offer great musicality with plenty of power to rattle things a bit when you want set offers better detail, presentation, soundstage and a more intimate presentation and to my ears more life like sound but typically will not offer the power to rattle things unless you spend some more $$$$$$$ to get a higher power set amp ( figure 3 times what the welbornes would set you back ) JMHO Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindman Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I have Moondogs and Khorns+La Scalas. No "Cornscalas". I usually listen at fairly low-to-medium loudness volumes. (I have neighbors.) They drive my speakers...well. And the sound is...unbelievable! When I want high volume (i.e. the neighbors are gone)...I switch over to my MC 30's or my Scott 299B or MC 2105. In other words, why have only one amplifier (or only one pair of amplifiers)? Keep more than one option on hand for each different listening circumstance that presents itself. Whether you do it intentionaly or not... given enough time with this hobby, you will most likely discover that you will end up with more than one set of speakers, more than one set of preamplifiers, more than one set of amplifiers, and more than one set of source equipment devices. I vote for you to keep the Dynacos and acquire the Moondogs as the next step in your quest for audio fullfillment. Insert evil laugh here > Ha ha ha hahahah hahah hhaa haha ha. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 depends what you mean by "DRIVE MY CORNSCALAS" will it deliver some really nice sound at a reasonable sound level ??? " YES" , will it rattle the windows with bass ??? " NO" they simply will not have the power to really get the woofer moving hard / fast enough to pound the bass, but they will play at what i consider a nice level ( between 80 and 95 db at 10 feet) above that you can count on introducing distortion..............my suggestion would be to either borrow a decent set amp or buy them but hold off selling the dynaco's till you see if you can live with the reduced levels it is almost a given that you will be rewarded with more mid / higher end detail, soundstage will improve, air around the instruments and vocals will be better defined the question to ask yourself is what do you expect from your system ??????? one nice thing about push pull amps is they offer some very decent detail with the power to push the speaks when the need / feeling arises..........dynaco mark 3's offer great musicality with plenty of power to rattle things a bit when you want set offers better detail, presentation, soundstage and a more intimate presentation and to my ears more life like sound but typically will not offer the power to rattle things unless you spend some more $$$$$$$ to get a higher power set amp ( figure 3 times what the welbornes would set you back ) JMHO Joe That was exactly my take on SET. My Canary Audio 300Bs. If I could go back in time and stop myself from selling one pair of amps that would be it. Just curious but what are your thoughts on 300B PP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nailbender Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 To go more into detail about my system I have Crites crossovers, cast woofers and his tweeters. My pre-amp is a Blueberry w/ 6H30 and extreme transformer mods.d I'll research for more info on a 300B push pull. My listening room is only 300 sq ft. The Dynaco I have is Bob Latino's ST-120 currently w/ KT-88 Gold Lions and a Mullard rectifier tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nailbender Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 BTW Bob Latino's ST-120 60wpc amp rocks my house. I'm not knocking his amp. There is some serious iron in those trannies. Maybe I'm getting too old or more likely my wife nags me to turn it down. My dogs go outside when they see me turn on the stereo.[&] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 My living room is slightl smaller than yours. I use a JM Merlin, feeding the Moondogs. The speakers are some LaScalas. I find, for my room, I have plenty of bass and plenty of volume. At around 80-85db, the music carries me away to another place. I am more than happy with orchestral/symphonic music, jazz and a lot of rock and roll. I have found the greater detail means I don't have to turn it up to hear what's there. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 depends what you mean by "DRIVE MY CORNSCALAS" will it deliver some really nice sound at a reasonable sound level ??? " YES" , will it rattle the windows with bass ??? " NO" they simply will not have the power to really get the woofer moving hard / fast enough to pound the bass, but they will play at what i consider a nice level ( between 80 and 95 db at 10 feet) above that you can count on introducing distortion..............my suggestion would be to either borrow a decent set amp or buy them but hold off selling the dynaco's till you see if you can live with the reduced levels it is almost a given that you will be rewarded with more mid / higher end detail, soundstage will improve, air around the instruments and vocals will be better defined the question to ask yourself is what do you expect from your system ??????? one nice thing about push pull amps is they offer some very decent detail with the power to push the speaks when the need / feeling arises..........dynaco mark 3's offer great musicality with plenty of power to rattle things a bit when you want set offers better detail, presentation, soundstage and a more intimate presentation and to my ears more life like sound but typically will not offer the power to rattle things unless you spend some more $$$$$$$ to get a higher power set amp ( figure 3 times what the welbornes would set you back ) JMHO Joe That was exactly my take on SET. My Canary Audio 300Bs. If I could go back in time and stop myself from selling one pair of amps that would be it. Just curious but what are your thoughts on 300B PP? i have only heard a couple 300B pp ampd one being wavac (way outta my price range) but soundedvery nice, and the others i ouned were canary i beleive 330 was the model # (50 wpc), they also sounded great and i actually wouldnt mind ouning those again moonsterous aamps and beautiful craftsmanship Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I don't think that the Moondogs are going to give you more push than the Dyancos, but I know that the NOSvalve VRDs will, plus they may also have that more delicate touch of SETs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nailbender Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 I like how Bruce defines what I am looking for. "I have found the greater detail means I don't have to turn it up to hear what's there". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I agree with Bruce as well. I've used SET amps for many years, and really like what they can do with the right speakers (right = very efficient, appropriate impedance). I also do most listening at low to moderate levels, although I have driven my Moth integrated 2A3 amp into clipping with demanding source material played at high volume. I built my pair of Moondogs in the late 90s, and have also configured them for use with the 300B triode. I suspect I didn't really perceive that much of a difference between the 300B and 2A3 in terms of power, but both can sound good with the Klipschorns -- or even Heresies. Moondogs are IMO classic 2A3 single-ended amps, but it would be good to try something similar, if at all possible, to see if they are right for you. If not, nothing lost; there are so many amplifiers available that would be worth considering. As others have mentioned, there are some really outstanding push-pull amplifiers. For home theater I use 30 watts/channel, and it is much better for dynamics of movie soundtracks. One consideration with an SET amp has to do with the loudspeaker crossover. Many have found good results with more simple, lower order designs, just because of the lower insertion losses. Very high order networks, which require many passive parts, have not, in my experience, been particularly well-suited to amps in the 1.5 - 8 watt power range. Again, that's been my experience. Everyone is different. Have fun, Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 This is some really good reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 For me, when it hits 100db, it's too loud. Not because of distortion, but I just don't like it LOUD much anymore. I have a 75 wpc SS amp I can use, very clean and quiet, but I don't find I need it for most of what I like and listen to. I should point out that my crossovers, as Erik mentioned, are low order, but also a constant impedance, to present a more even load to my Moondogs. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 This is some really good reading.Agreed, as I take the slippery slope from SS to tubes a few gigs of searching yield BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. This thread and one or two fresh ones locally have been enlightening as to some 'common' thoughts on how Klipsch interacts with some differing tube amp topography.If I may intrude for a moment, I have a question. I see mentioned the impedence variations of a model of speaker/crossover as a variable in choosing the right amp. I own Belles with BEC A4500s/CT-125s and will be receiving Joe's '74 Khorns tomorrow (woops, xovers unknown at the moment but stock). What amp topography (SET,etc not brand) would most likely be a better fit for these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nailbender Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 I never read anything like this before about crossovers and impendence. As stated above I purchased Bob Crites' Cornscala crossovers. In fact I purchased all the parts from Bob and built them out of cheap birch plywood which I will NEVER do again. For any of you DIYers out there... don't skimp on lumber. I sanded thriough the veneer numerous times and used a pint of wood filler to fill the exposed voids in the laminations. So what type crossovers do I have? I wouldn't know a low order constant impendence crossover if it hit me upside the head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I don't think that the Moondogs are going to give you more push than the Dyancos, but I know that the NOSvalve VRDs will, plus they may also have that more delicate touch of SETs We used to have some real knock down drag out SET vs PP Klipsch forum discussions post 9-11. 2A3, 300B EL84. 7189......and the big guns KT88, EL34. 6L6.... Like I have said about Klipsch speakers vs Others: Do you want to hear the orchestra from the rear of the balcony or sitting on the lip of the orchestra pit? Dynamic range of music has a huge effect in my mind. The 3 low watt SET amps I have heard in the past 6-8 years were not to my liking. - limited bass weight - rolled off highs at higher power - inapropriate for a large room - uninspiring attack and decay of instruments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I sold Bruce his Moondogs, not because I did not like them but needed the cash. This is the review I did when I first got them. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/71605/702243.aspx#702243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I also believe if you have the money then try the Moondogs. If they do not work for you then sell them. People can explain all they want but until you hear equipment in your system you will not know how it will sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 My youngest son, plays trumpet, and just got his Bachelor of Music degree. Loves big symphony music, and was principle trumpet for the Valpo U. Orchestra. He knows dynamics and volume, so I always enjoy it when he is home and says that listening to my system is like having an orchestra in the living room. Again, his ears, my ears, my room. YMMV, yadayada My only complaint about orchestral recordings is this: For all those who want to listen to the recording the same as the perfomance, I wish they would say what db level you should be expecting, and approx. what row you should think you are in. If the recording is meant to sound like you are in the front row, you will have the gain set a LOT different than the 25th. And playing it back differently will make a huge difference in your perception of the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.